#MRI images
18 messages in this thread
I've recently had a set of 84 MRI images made of my head. I would like to know
if it is feasible to obtain the digital data (I've been told it's stored on a
WORM optical drive) in a form that can be stored and interpreted by my
computer. I have an Amiga 2000HD with a Quantum 40 MB hard drive and a
removable-media SyQuest drive that uses 88MB Winchester cartridges. I would
like to be able to display and image-process the data on my computer as well as
be able to provide it to another MRI facility, should the need arise. What
type of image formats and/or conversion programs could help me do this at a
reasonable price? If the amount of data is in the megabyte range, I should be
able to store it all somehow. –Charles Reed [72247,2161]
Charles, you should ask Black Belt Systems over in AmigaVendor. I think
they have a MRI loader for Imagemaster.
Jim
Charles,
Imagemaster can load GE MRI image files, in either Intel or MOT formats;
both are common. MRI images are *generally* 256×256 arrays of 8 bit or
deeper data; that means about 64k bytes of space per image, uncompressed.
Imagemaster R/t, due shortly, contains a new saving technology that will
obtain maximum compression for the files, MUCH higher than IFF ILBM can
do, and still remain lossless. If you have 84 images, you're looking at
about 5.5 megs of raw data in 8 bit, or 11 megs of raw data in 16 bits.
Odds are the files would take up about a megabyte if converted to the new
format (called TRIM) in Imagemaster R/t. In the mean time, IM cna load and
process the images if you can get them in GE MRI format.
–Ben
…via AutoPilot
Your calculations about raw image size are pretty close to mine. I think that
I would like to know how much ImageMaster costs. I am now having a RIDICULOUS
problem, however. Today I signed out the analog b&w images from the center
that made them, but GE refuses to release the digital data to me! So I am in
the odd position of being in possession of the original films but they are
refusing to release the digital images to me in ANY form unless my doctor
requests it. My doctor said "no" and GE is afraid of losing confidentiality,
even though all they have to do is copy my data (already released to me in
analog form) and send me the copy on a tape or via some other means equally
satisfactory to us both. Indeed THEY refused to tell me even the SIZE of my
file OR the size a single raw digital image!
know my doctor has no interest in digital imagery and is technically ignorant
of the uses to which digital imagery can be put. Tomorrow I try again to
convince him to ask for the data, but I may have to force legal action to get
results. I should own the data, but should GE be forced to produce it, I could
get it in a form that is useless to me: a 1.2 gigabyte DAT tape containing my
5.5MB file! Any suggestions? –Charles Reed
You could always scan the films. I doubt you really "own" the data. It's your
head, but not your machine, and the hospital doesn't have to release everything
to you in a form you want. You don't really want all that data, do you? An
Exabyte 8mm tape holds 5 gig. If you scanned the films on a flatbed scanner,
you'd get much more manageable amounts of data.
John,
This thought had occurred to me, however, the TOTAL amount of MY data
is only about 5.5 MB uncompressed! I don't need gigabytes of data, nor is that
much part of my record. The images are only 256 x 256 pixels with 256 gray
levels, but the analog films contain multiple images and each film is about the
size of a standard hospital X-Ray. I may need to fall back on scanning, but
the highest accuracy should come from the original digital data made with the
highest-quality equipment. That should be the starting point before any
additional image processing on my part begins, but I may eventually need to
fall back on scanning the films. The DUMB part is that they readily released
ALL the analog data to me, but won't even talk to me about releasing the
digital part in ANY form at this point in time, even though all they would be
issuing is a digital COPY. –Charles Reed
I'm sorry, I thought you said 5.5 gig. 🙂 Never mind. Have you considered
the possibility that they're simply stalling because they've erased your data
already? It's undoubtably a hassle for them. Are you willing to pay hourly
charges to ask them to do it?
That depends on the rates and the estimated time to complete the task. They
have stated that the data is stored on a WORM optical disk, so I don't think
it's been destroyed. I learned from a friend of mine at the corporation for
which I worked that a read of 5.5 MB and save to a 1.3 GB tape would take about
5 minutes and that a blank tape of this type would cost about $5.00. They are
supposed to be using a Sun workstation and Unix, so such an operation would be
simple. BUT, I'd still need to find a way to read the data off such a tape.
They are now claiming that they have no tape drives available at their
facility, though one technician let slip that apparently their facility IS tied
to other GE facilities through a proprietary Ethernet network. I have NO idea
how long it would take to transfer 5.5 MB across the network to the nearest
node with a tape drive. I've been trying to determine the technical
feasibility so that I could come up with a reasonable estimate for cost, but
they are now refusing to even discuss technical problems with me. –Charles
Reed
5.5 meg would take maybe two minutes over an Ethernet network under normal
load.
> 5.5 meg would take maybe two minutes over an Ethernet network under >
normal load.
Depends on the machines involved…I do that kind of transfer regularly,
and it takes 40 seconds or less…and that's on a pretty heavily loaded
network.
Steve
I wanted to give him a worst-case scenario…
Thanks. That's just about in the range I thought it would be!
Are you near a teaching hospital? One with a radiology residency program? If
so, you could probably talk the nuc. med. techs into scanning the film for you
if you offer them a copy. The DuPont F-Series scanners (which handle up to
14×17 film) give you a good 256 gray scale image as well as a positive print of
the film if you want that also.
I am probably near two such facilities, but I'm not that familiar with their
programs. Also, time is a factor. I currently live in Denver, CO but I am
forced to leave in July for St. Louis. My best guess is that Boulder, CO has
such a program and the technology to go with it, but Denver University might
also be such a possibility. In St. Louis, Washington University is a hotbed of
MRI research activity. I would like to definitively rule out the possibility
of obtaining the original digital data first, however. It seems to me that the
technical difficulties might not be insuperable, but the cost might be
prohibitive. This would be relatively straightforward if the facility would be
"straight" with me about their capabilities and help by providing an estimate
of cost, but they talked to their lawyers instead and have grown skittish,
apparently afraid I'm going to institute a malpractice suit or something.
–Charles Reed
I'm not sure I can help you. Barnes, which now has a hyphenated name because of
a merger, is a good teaching hospital in St. Louis and I know they have
teleradiology, which means digital images.
One suggestion, avoid lawyers and doctors; try to talk to the physicists or the
technicians on a collegial basis. If you can get their interest, they'll do it
free.
Yep, that sounds like the best course to me as well. Now, how to implement
this idea practicall … hmmm.
Urg. First suggestion is to take the films and have them scanned using a
256-grey level transparency equipped scanner. That's the easy way out, not
fighting the large entrenched company. The next path is "call a lawyer" (I
can't beleive I sad that… gak) and have the lawyer call GE. That should
be relatively inexpensive.
Imagemaster is $199.95; Imagemaster R/t, due shortly, is $299.95; either
one can be had for $99.95 direct from us if you can come up with a front
page of a manual from either any ASDG software imaging product (AdPro vX,
Morph+, ProScanLab) or any GVP Imaging product (Cinemorph, ImageFX). For
more info, you can always call (800) 852-6442.
–Ben
…via AutoPilot
Ben,
Thanks for the info. I agree that the first method would work, but I
personally do not have a scanner and am currently an unemployed aerospace
engineer, thinking about going back to graduate school. Of course, it could
STILL be true that the first option would be cheaper and faster than the second
one (see a lawyer), but we all know that the original digital data should be of
the best quality, by not being "filtered" first through an analog process.
This is the REAL reason I'm interested in obtaining the copy of the original
digital data.
–Charles Reed