#New 3D chip revolution?
30 messages in this thread
Hello everybody,
Yes, it is always me spreading rumors and news arround but I just have catched
this info and couldn't resist to post it:
—-
3Dlabs Graphics Processors to Bring Workstation Class 3D Graphics to the PC
GLiNT 300SX and GLiNT 300TX conform to industry standard OpenGL 3D API
SAN JOSE, CALIF. – APRIL 18, 1994. 3Dlabs Inc Ltd (3Dlabs) today announced
details of its forthcoming GLiNT(tm) family of graphics processors. The GLiNT
300SX and GLiNT 300TX are the first 3D processor chips to implement the
complete pixel processing layers of a 3D software standard – OpenGL(tm).
OpenGL was originally developed by Silicon Graphics and is an open API
supported by industry leaders such as IBM, Digital Equipment, Intel and
Intergraph. The next release of Windows NT and future versions of Windows from
Microsoft will include OpenGL as the standard 3D API.
The first GLiNT chips pack the equivalent of a high-end Silicon Graphics Indigo
graphics board-set onto a single chip – for less than the cost of the VRAM
framebuffer memory. The GLiNT chips provide complete 24-bit 2D and 3D
acceleration, on-chip PCI interface, and LUT-DAC control, making a complete
graphics subsystem possible with minimal chip count.
"Both the GLiNT 300SX and 300TX are extremely advanced in design. They use 1
million transistors and run at the equivalent of 2.5 Giga Operations per
second" said Osman Kent, President and CEO at 3Dlabs. "In comparison a typical
VGA chip uses 50K transistors, and GLiNT will render 3D graphics orders of
magnitude faster than the latest RISC chips."
3Dlabs' single chip solutions enable board and system manufacturers to lower
the cost, and dramatically increase the performance of their 3D products for
applications such as CAD, Multimedia, Simulation, Virtual Reality, Interactive
TV and Games. 3Dlabs also provides manufacturers with reference board designs,
manufacturing kits, and optimized drivers for Win32, X11 and OpenGL, as well as
application drivers such as AutoCAD and Microstation.
"Because the GLiNT processors can drive varying amounts of framebuffer and
off-screen memory, board and system manufacturers can rapidly develop products
with different ratios of price, performance and functionality" said Kent.
The GLiNT family of 3D processors implements all the OpenGL rendering
operations in silicon, including Gouraud shading, depth buffering,
texture-mapping, anti-aliasing and alpha blending. As OpenGL defines almost
every possible manipulation and function for 3D pixels, GLiNT also provides
excellent performance for 3D APIs such as PEXlib, XGL and HOOPS.
"Other 3D chips have suffered from a lack of software" said Neil Trevett, Vice
President of Marketing at 3Dlabs. "The GLiNT chips however will benefit from
the momentum of OpenGL as we provide software to board manufacturers, enabling
them to provide high value acceleration for the growing number of OpenGL
applications".
The pin-compatible GLiNT 300SX and GLiNT 300TX provide 300K shaded, Z-buffered,
anti-aliased, translucent polygons per second. Both chips also have texture
mapping acceleration, with the 300TX providing the highest texturing
performance. A single board design can accommodate either GLiNT chip.
3Dlabs is an worldwide OEM supplier of chips, software and technology for 3D
graphics. The company's products enable board and system manufacturers to
integrate 3D capabilities into their products. The company was originally
formed in 1984, and as Du Pont Pixel established a reputation as a leading
centre of excellence for 3D graphics by bringing Silicon Graphics levels of
performance and functionality to Sun workstations. 3Dlabs was founded in April
1994 and is privately owned. 3Dlabs Inc. is headquartered in San Jose, Calif.
Contacts
Neil Trevett
Jonathan Hirshon
Vice President of Marketing
Business Unit Director
3Dlabs Inc.
The Benjamin Group Inc.
Phone: (408) 436-3456
Phone: (408) 559-6090
Email: neil.trevett@3dlabs.com
Email: jonathanh@eworld.com
Note to editors: the use of upper and lower case in 3Dlabs and GLiNT is
deliberate and consistent. Your use of these styles is appreciated.
3Dlabs and GLiNT are trademarks of 3Dlabs Inc Ltd. OpenGL is a trademark of
Silicon Graphics Inc. All other trademarks are acknowledged.
———————
Are we going to see this soon? Anyone has more news about upcoming boards using
this chipset? Here are my views about this topic: If this company really
mantain the claims about cost and software development kits, I am seeing these
boards in every box of everyone here in the forum 🙂 Sounds like heaven. Now to
wait for the real thing and some good 3D software (read 3ds 🙂 to run on it.
And, now that we are on it, could anyone in Adesk pass this suggestion to the
big heads there (again?): why not make a public and simple quick fast document
announcing Adesk _intentions_ of supporting platforms for upcoming versions of
its products? I mean, you made it with the SGI 3DS renderer, why don't make a
list of autodesk's "wishes" about future platform support, like position
towards PowerPC, Alpha, etc…? Could this be dangerous for Autodesk economic
future? I know that this subject have been touched a few times here, but note
that it is just a petition, a wish, a dream cloud in a clear sunny spanish
afternoon <g> Thaaanks.
ana /krazy images
Ana,
We've seen reports of the chipset, and while faster than most standard PC
systems, the SGI equivalent that they like to stress is actually the bottom of
the line SGI machines. Not even in the Ballpark of the Elan much less the
Extreme.
Things to look out for at Siggraph '94:
SGI will most likely show off it's new Extreme graphics subsytem for the Indy
while debuting it's Reality Engine for the Indigo2. We're hoping that they'll
be running the new TFP processor that will replace the 4400 series in the fall
of this year.
While most of the chip manufacturers struggle to reach benchmarks set by SGI
years ago, SGI continues to destroy wannabes with sheer power. Also keep in
mind that while the performance of SGI workstations increases at dramatic
rates, their prices per unit continue to drop at phenomenal rates.
Paul
Hi Paul,
I was just browsing through these forums and your message caught my attention.
I am from 3Dlabs and GLINT actually sits between Elan and Extreme in terms of
pure polygon performance (300K/sec g-shaded, z-buffered). However, with GLINT
you can turn anti-aliasing, fog, alpha blend etc on and the performance stays
the same. In addition the 300TX provides full OpenGL texture implementation in
hardware (8M Texels/sec). While this is not quite RealityEngine speeds, it is a
breakthrough for the rest of us.
I will agree with you that SGI will always have the leadership position in
terms of 3D – our jobs to is to satisfy SGI-envy in the PC world.
If you would like to receive information on GLINT and on our ISV program please
call us at
3Dlabs Inc.
408-436 3455 [ask for Neil Trevett]
Osman
I had no idea that your single chip technology would allow over a million 3D
vectors per second like the Elan. I'd heard otherwise. With real time fog? And
turning on the fog and true real time anti-aliasing doesn't affect speed? If
that's true then you've done something that even SGI lacks, because turning on
those options will definately slow down the SGI performance levels. Sounds like
quite a chip. And it'll run on any PC? What OpenGL compliant PC based programs
are you shooting for?
Is the 300K Tmesh figure, 10X10 (50 pixel)triangle mesh, lighted, g-shaded, and
z-buffered?
What's the price? Who's supporting the board? What kind of speed will it
deliver on regular Dos and Windows apps?
Inquiring Minds Want to know.
We own a number of SGI machines but with your technology there's no reason for
anyone to be envious. I take it that you'll be showing off this technology in
some PCs at Siggraph?
Paul
Hi Paul,
Our 3D vector speed is below 1M (750K) but the rest of what you have said is
true. Let me try to answer your other questions
1. The chip will run on any PC but almost akk our customers are doing PCI
boards (it is a PCI chip) so you will need PCI PCs.
2. There aren't many OpenGL programs on the PC yet – it is the chicken and egg
situation which we are hoping to change by being the egg (or the chicken).
3. The 300K number is for 25 pixel tmesh, lit, g-shaded, z-buffered (24-bits).
Note that we dothe Geometry and the lighting on the host CPU. So to reach these
figures you will need a Pentium.
4. The chip is around $150 – our customers will be introducing boards around
$500-900. There will be around 20 board level suppliers introducing products
during the next 6 months.
5. We have no value to add to regular DOS except in the case of AutoCAD and
3DS drivers. These are being done by some of our customers.
6. For the first time in 8 years we will not be participating at Siggraph but
we will be showing the product at Comdex Fall. This is because we are PC
centric now I suppose.
If you send me your postal address I will send you some details on the product.
Osman
Sounds fantastic Osman. I'll be calling tomorrow A.M.
Thanks for "just browsing".
>> While this is not quite RealityEngine speeds, it is a breakthrough for the
rest of us. <<
No kidding, quite impressive.
-JE
Osman,
Is your 3D chip and board built with it available on the market for the PC now?
How much will it cost?
Mei-Tien
Hi Mei,
The products using the chip will not be available until Comdex Fall.
Realistically the volume shipments will start during Q195.
FYI this is our 6th generation 3D product – the only difference is that until
now we only participated in providing SGI capability on SPARC workstations (we
used to be called Du Pont Pixel).
Osman
Osman-
I'm very pleased to hear about your new 3D chips coming out. Please make sure
you notify magazines like PC Magazine, PC World, and certainly Computer
Graphics world of this new development- mabe they can get you some hype and
spur on computer software developers to support Open GL. I would certainly
purchase a PCI board (along with the rest of us here) for $500-$800.. That
would be tremendous.
Please be sure to notify any board developers of the many 3DS users, and their
need for drivers supporting these boards. Some current boards (Matrox is one
glaring example) only have Autocad drivers for their advanced hardware
features.
Thanks,
John N. Jordan
I agree with you Paul, that SGIs will be always ahead in the race (perhaps we
have to say "maybe will…" because this could be also discussed). Because of
their experience and their machines, the have the competitive advantage.
However, look what happened to Truevision. Not the best comparision, but you I
bet that you understand me. Market change quickly.
IMHO, the new chip and boards will be an incredible advancement over the
current PC hardware, bringing at a great price exceptional features. As you
say, SGI is lowering prices. It could be convenient to remeber that if SGIs are
lowering price is for the pressure that they are recieving from the "lower end"
of the animation industry (also because other production elements). I will love
to buy an SGI within my budget, or get a contract really big enough to change
in an easy transition. In the other side, I think that 3DSr4 could mark the
definitive difference or, better said, erase that difference. Cheap processors
like the Alpha or the PowerPC could be the last piece in the puzzle for a
relatively cheap highend computing and graphics.
BTW, did you check the new PowerMacs? I have read impressive comparisions
between Onyx and the 8100 running a morphing program that I still can't
believe. Maybe you have a test unit and have make your own benchmarks (not in
3D, of course, there is No competition 🙂 and can comment here.
Thanks for your thoughts,
ana /krazy images
3ds r4?
When?
Mei-Tien
Ana,
We purchased a couple of the new PowerMacs to replace our older Macs, but I
haven't run any comparisons between them and the SGI machines.
It's not hard to believe that the Mac will out perform the Onyx on a morhing
program, because that's not what the Onyx is designed to do and the morphing
program is definately only using one of it's processors with the program.
In order to do a proper comparison you'd have to run morphing benchmarks
between the Mac and an Indy. The Indy with it's 1 Meg of CPU cache fly's
through 2D paint and morphing work and runs a little bit over twice as fast as
our Indigo2 Extremes running the same program. The Indy was specifically
designed to address the 2D need.
Also remeber that the reasoning for running ASDG's Elastic Reality on the SGI
machines instead of the Macs is because the SGI version has alot more features
and functionality.
The SGI price lowering is due to a number of reasons including new advances in
chip and board designs. The new Extreme subsytems will be based on 1 board
instead of 3, and the new Indigo2 RE obviously includes a number of chip
advances. I'm not sure if you've ever seen the boards for a RE but suffice it
to say that one of the subsytems boards is bigger than the Indigo2.
As to R4, we'll have to wait and see. I personally love 3DS and have my fingers
crossed that Gary and Co. come out with a R4 release that destroys the
competitors. It's actually extremely difficult to run multi-platform solutions
just to achieve a result that could asily come from a single package.
Paul
Paul,
>> As to R4, we'll have to wait and see… G&C come out with an R4 that
destroys the competitors. <<
I think the next step is for 3DS to solidly hold its own against Wavefront,
then with R5 G&C will be positioned to destroy the competition. <g>
>> Its actually extemely difficult to run multi-platform solutions just to
achieve a result that could easily come from a single package. <<
Theoretically easy! Imagine trying to mix the best of Alias, SoftImage and 3DS
into a pot. Notice I didn't mention Wavefront as that would be redundant. <BG>
-JE
John,
What makes you think Wavefront is such a competitor against 3DS? Alias grabs
more 3DSers than Wavefront does.
Paul
Paul,
>> What makes you think Wavefront is such a competitor against 3DS? <<
Inverse Kinematics and West Coast Bias. <g>
-JE
John,
After using the IK in Wavefront, SI, and Alias, I can easily say that the
Wavefront solution is not even in the ballpark of being the best. The solution
isn't integrated into the package. It requires you to save thousands of morph
targets and sequencing files to bring into TAV itself. I don't believe they
even had anything to do with the writing of the code. It's a neat piece of code
but trying to use it with Wavefront itself is a nitemare. I'd rather use
Playmation/Animation Master for IK than fight with Kinemation.
Paul
Paul,
All I know is that a lot of people are spending a lot of time on motion data
for Wavefront and there must be a reason. Not that you aren't absolutely
correct.
-JE
Interesting.
Just so you know out of the three, Wavefront seems like the hardest to import
data into.
Alias is phenomenally easy, and SoftImage is so committed that they now have
their own motion capture system that they're bringing to market. A good example
of the market was demonstrated at NAB, when Wavefront was running the same
little Acclaim demo as everyone else. At one moment Wavefront and 3DS were
running the identical piece at the exact same time. 🙂 Lots of smoke and
mirrors in the Wavefront booth.
Alias in the meantime had live motion capture going on in real time in their
booth. They also had George running a Cyberware unit, etc.
I look for 3DS to go head to head against Alias in the future. I believe in the
Yost Group's ability to dominate the market.
For the 3DS group that has to supplement 3DS with an SGI based package,
Wavefront is without a doubt the most complex solution.
Obviously this is my opinion, but it is an opinion derived from running all of
the packages in a production environment.
Paul
P.S. – Enough discussion of other packages, let's stick to 3DS on the forum.
I have too much respect for Gary to discuss other stuff. Some people may
take it out of context, and not realize that 3DS is still our primary
package.
Ah! Now those becnhmarks seem more logical to me, Paul. Thanks for the
clarification.
ana /krazy images
I agree with you Paul, that SGIs will be always ahead in the race (perhaps we
have to say "maybe will…" because this could be also discussed). Because of
their experience and their machines, the have the competitive advantage.
However, look what happened to Truevision. Not the best comparision, but you I
bet that you understand me. Market change quickly.
IMHO, the new chip and boards will be an incredible advancement over the
current PC hardware, bringing at a great price exceptional features. As you
say, SGI is lowering prices. It could be convenient to remeber that if SGIs are
lowering price is for the pressure that they are recieving from the "lower end"
of the animation industry (also because other production elements). I will love
to buy an SGI within my budget, or get a contract really big enough to change
in an easy transition. In the other side, I think that 3DSr4 could mark the
definitive difference or, better said, erase that difference. Cheap processors
like the Alpha or the PowerPC could be the last piece in the puzzle for a
relatively cheap highend computing and graphics.
BTW, did you check the new PowerMacs? I have read impressive comparisions
between Onyx and the 8100 running a morphing program that I still can't
believe. Maybe you have a test unit and have make your own benchmarks (not in
3D, of course, there is No competition 🙂 and can comment here.
Thanks for your thoughts,
ana /krazy images
Ana,
I am from 3Dlabs and if you send me your phone number/postal address we could
send you info on GLiNT as well as getting you in touch with our board vendors.
Thanks for your kind remarks.
Osman [3Dlabs]
Re: Information on Glint / Board Vendors…
I'd appreciate some info, as well…
Michael O'Dea
O'Dea and Associates, P.C.
Hawthorne, NY
10532
(914)-747-2800
Thanks in advance!
Osman,
Another message from me, please send the same to me.
Mei-Tien Hsing
3 Overhill Dr.
Marlboro, NJ 07746
Osman:
could you also send me some info on this new chip and its applications?
let me know and i will give you my address.
thanks in advance
ara
Ara,
If you mail me your address & company I will send you the details asap.
Alternatively you can call the office (408) 436 3455 ans ask for Neil Trevett.
Thanks
Osman
Tapping in;
I would also apreaciate some infor on the GLiNT product:
Zac Rymland
AZ-TECH
2512 9th St #8
Berkeley, CA 94710
510/644-3533
Thanx
Osman, please add me to the info-list.
Fremer Huijgen
Studio PC
P.O. Box 18113
1001 ZA Amsterdam
Netherlands
Will do
Osman
Hey, might as add me to the bandwagon.
Thanks
John Jordan
100 E. Main St. #8
Wilmore Ky 40390
Done