CompuServe Thread

#Pentium/IPAS problems

22 messages in this thread
#104525From: David AustinMay 28, 1994 8:07 AM
Greetings from the capital of the Empire state, I have been successfully running 3DS3/IPAS #6 on my 486-DX2 66 machine for a while and have upgraded(?) to a 90mhz Pentium/Viper PCI system from AMBRA (Intel Mothra[sic]board). Now my AXP's are crashing and burning. Fire, for example (if you'll pardon the pun) when rendering in Keyframer, abruptly blows out to DOS with a message of: Abnormal Program Termination Divide Overflow CS:EIP=0072h:0000C62Eh. Sometimes I'll get video junk (horizontal black lines overwriting the screen) on the rendering status window while the first frame is being rendered and then system lock-up. Non-IPAS stuff works OK, though. My config.sys is very plain jane and have tried with & without EMM. What'dya think? Thanks for your help.
#104550From: Yost GroupMay 28, 1994 11:12 AM
This is the second bizarre problem with a P5/90 that I've heard in 12 hours. (the first is that Gateway problem with the 90 rendering slower than the 50) If all of your AXP's are crashing, it's a sure sign that Phar Lap isn't able to do its thing. You might try changing some of the bios switches (cacheing, etc). Beyond that, it looks like we're all in for some lessons about flakey P5/90's for awhile. Does anyone out there have a P5/90 that works correctly?
#104648From: ALAN IGLESIASMay 29, 1994 12:41 PM
Yes, Gary. Corky Deeds, a dealer whose shop we use for our UG meetings has had a couple of 90's running 3DS now for about a month. Although I didn't exactly beat on them real hard yet, they certainly seem to run/render very well, considerably faster than my P60. He is currently testing a board that has 2 PCI slots, 2 VLB slots, and a few ISA's. Sounds dangerous<g>, but I think they are running OK so far. Since these reports are starting to crop up here on the forum, I'll make it a point to contact him this week and see if there is anything else to report. Maybe I'll get down there soon (actually, our meeting is Thursday, so I *will* be down there soon) and test them a bit more myself.
#104742From: Yost GroupMay 30, 1994 10:34 AM
Alan, could you try to do some performance benchmarks while running some axp's? Thanks, – G
#104756From: ALAN IGLESIASMay 30, 1994 12:04 PM
OK. I'll work up a few test-cases, benchmark them, and run 'em down at Corky's place this week. Flame and Vapor sound like good candidates. -Alan
#104945From: Steve OrmondeMay 31, 1994 4:04 PM
>> This is the second bizarre problem with a P5/90 that I've heard in 12 hours. (the first is that Gateway problem with the 90 rendering slower than the 50) << Uh, oh! My Gateway P90 is due here this week… I'll let you know if I experience any problems. – Steve Ormonde
#105353From: parris wardJun 2, 1994 12:19 PM
Gary, We have been using our Gateway 90 for almost a month now with no real problems. I did have some memory page frame conflicts initially with my Targa+, but resolved it through tinkering with CMOS parameters. We have used your Tempo and Displace IPAS routines with no problems. We rarely use the really glitzy IPAS stuff since 90% of our work is forensic so I can't say if they are causing problems. Our initial benchmarks have shown something like a 250-275% rendering speed improvement over our 486-66s. I'll drop you a note if any problems comes up. BTW-I love the new IPAS stuff. Great work! -Parris
#105437From: Tyler ColwellJun 2, 1994 5:29 PM
Hi Mr. Ward, I noticed that you do primarily forensic work with 3D Studio. I was wondering if you could give me your opinion on something. I am a registered Mechanical Engineer (CA and NV) and I would like to do similar work, with an added twist. In addition to my 3DS experience, I also have extensive experience in Finite Element Analysis (FEA), which is computer aided analysis of physical systems. I can use FEA to reconstruct events when physical parameters are known (velocities, accelerations, masses, impact angles, stiffnesses, damping, etc.). Using the results from this process I then can create a realistic animation of an accurately reconstructed event with 3DS. This all sound extemely good on paper. But what I don't know is whether or not there is a real need for such services, or whether the potential clients for this service would have any faith in, or appreciation for the results. Could you give me your opinion(s) on this? Thank you in advance. -TC
#105969From: parris wardJun 6, 1994 1:29 AM
Tyler, Our company has done a bit of FE modeling in the past. In fact our company president did an FE model of the human brain many years ago. But as you know, that kind of modeling can complicated and tedious. We do not generally use it for litigation for several reasons. Mainly because of the higher burden for admissibility. Such an analysis is really a simulation, and not an animation. Animations are used mostly as demonstrative evidence to illustrate an expert's testimony. Simulations, on the other hand, can prove facts indepently. For that reason they are much more difficult to get admitted into court. The reliability of the computer code and the data are called into question. The computer code itself sometimes must be submitted far in advance of trial for the other side's expert to review. This can be a bit of a problem if the code is proprietary. It must also be shown that the model can be validated. Then there is the accuracy of the input data to consider. These issues by theselves can lead to pretty extensive litigation. Basically your opening an expensive can of worms. For that reason a lot of attorneys shy away from it. I've personally heard of a case where an attorney got burned to the tune of $100,000 and had his simulation kicked out of court. There are a lot of Recon people who use the EDC programs such as EDSMAC and EDCRASH. We use them too. These are 2D accident reconstruction programs. They have proven themselves over time in many jurisdictions and are now widely accepted, so admissibility is not too difficult. However, even with these programs, your input data is still open to scrutiny. We do do quite a few simulations, but we use a widely known (in the Auto Industry) and used mathematical modeling software package called MADYMO. It is not a finite element model–rather you work with lump masses defined as either ellipses or planes. You can assign surface elasticity values, joint stiffnesses, object mass, center of gravity, velocity…etc. You can even integrate FE models. The real beauty, though, is that every automobile manufacturer uses it in designing their cars! Therefore, they cannot object to its reliability and, thus, admissibility. Recently we even got it admitted, without objection, in a federal criminal case. We have have been looking at ways to link MADYMO and 3D Studio through IPAS–thus making 3DS a sort of post processor. MADYMO looks a little rough since it just shows you a bunch of animated colored ellipses. 3DS could dress it up nicely for court use. But, on the other hand, I had one attorney that preferred the "technical, computer look" of MADYMO because he thought the jury might belive it more. So who knows. Anyway, I don't know what to tell you about getting into FEA, other than it could be a real battle. You might start simple, just testifying as an engineer. Do some 3DS animations to illustrate your testimony. Then write some custom IPAS routines which add the effects of gravity, friction, mass and collision detection. Then you could sell your routines to the rest of us 3DS users! Hope this all helps -Parris
#105994From: SyndesisJun 6, 1994 8:19 AM
Just Friday I received a package describing EDCRASH and EDSMAC. I'm looking at their moition output files, and thinking of making an IPAS to load that format.
#106131From: parris wardJun 6, 1994 4:19 PM
John, I've thought of doing that myself. It's a great idea. I'm sure you could sell it to quite a few reconstructionists. I know I would buy a copy! -Parris
#106143From: SyndesisJun 6, 1994 5:16 PM
And since reconstructionists are paid by lawyers, heavens knows they have big expense accounts. 🙂 Maybe you'd be a good beta tester, or at least I'd love to hear your ideas for this project…
#106352From: parris wardJun 7, 1994 4:31 PM
I wish we had large expense accounts!!!!!!! I'd love to help you develop such and IPAS routine. Anything I can do to help. I don't know how helpful EDC would be since they are developing an itegrated simulation/animation program themselves–but it only runs on SGI. -Parris
#106158From: Tyler ColwellJun 6, 1994 5:47 PM
Parris, Thank you for your complete and honest response. I need to hear the pros and cons before proceeding. Your opinions and advice are invaluable. Thank you again. -TC
#105463From: Yost GroupJun 2, 1994 7:53 PM
Thanks for the feedback, Parris. I'm very glad to hear that at least it's not a generic Gateway P5/90 problem! Have you got any interesting forensic work for the Siggraph reel? (besides police brutality cases, I hope) – G
#105510From: parris wardJun 2, 1994 11:25 PM
<Have you got any interesting forensic work for the Siggraph reel? (besides police brutality cases, I hope)> I had a great one – It was a police butality case though, but this was against the police. I was all excited about putting it on my demo reel. Unfortunately, the case settled for millions of dollars and the condition for the settlement was that I could not show the animation (especially to the Press) or discuss the facts of the case to ANYONE for five years–so save room on the Siggraph '99 reel! I have another which resulted in huge settlement from GM, and another which is kind of humorous. I'll see if I can't dub 'em to beta and send 'em in. As to that infamous case, this week it finally ended for me. We've been working for the city in the civil case, which as you no-doubt have heard, is finally over. Thank goodness. -Parris
#105514From: Yost GroupJun 3, 1994 12:06 AM
Send whatever you can in! Humorous? That would be something, in your line of work. I'm likewise glad to see that case over, hopefully for good. It's been over two years for ya'll… I'm sure a very long haul. – G
#105553From: Mei-Tien HsingJun 3, 1994 6:32 AM
Parris, How do you adjust CMOS paramters to get Targa to work with Gateway? Thanks. Mei-Tien
#105955From: parris wardJun 6, 1994 12:05 AM
Mei-Tien, In the "Advanced CMOS Setup" configuration I set the parameter for DISABLE SHADOW MEMORY SIZE to 64kb and the line below that –DISABLE SHADOW MEMORY BASE to D0000h. Hope that helps. Parris
#106016From: Mei-Tien HsingJun 6, 1994 9:40 AM
Parris, Thanks so much for your reply. I am considering a Gateway p5/90( or Zeos , Dell 90 ), I am new to 3DS, what configuration of p5/90 did you get? Does 3DS r3 now works 100%? Thanks again! Mei-Tien
#106187From: Stuart NicholsonJun 6, 1994 10:40 PM
I have been getting 250% to 275% speed increase using a pentium 60!! What gives???
#106350From: parris wardJun 7, 1994 4:28 PM
<<I have been getting 250% to 275% speed increase using a pentium 60!! What gives???>> I really haven't done a scientific study on this. I have a couple of 486-66 machines with 40mb of ram, a few 486-50s, and now a Pentium-90 with 40mb of ram. What took me around 3 minutes a frame on the 486-66s now takes about a minute on the Pentium. I bought the Pentium 90, not just for the speed, but for the improved (cooler) chip design. I really wanted jump at those 60s and 66s but figured I was better off waiting for the 90. I bought a Gateway since both Dell and Gateway (and a few others) use the same Intel motherboard–no manufacturer had a clearly superior design. Compaq is too expensive and I've been burned by ALR on compatability in the past. So far I have been happy with the Pentium. It does have the PCI chip set COM port bug but I can work around that. Maybe if time permits I will do some serious benchmarks, and if I do I'll get back with you and pehaps compare with it your 60. -Parris