#D2, Betcam SP and Toast
20 messages in this thread
Wayne,
Do you have the numbers for those companies by any chance?
Why do you think D2 would be a problem?
Polo
Leo,
This sounds like an old reponse you are referring to. I'm sorry, you'll
have to do me a refresh cycle here. What companies were you looking for
numbers for?
I vaguely rember teh D2 thing and I think what I was leading up to was
that the Toaster outputs Analog composite and D2 is digital composite. So
though the Toaster is D2 internal for DVE, capture etc., to record to D2
you would have to use a deck tht encodes the composite or an encoder
between the Toaster and the D2 deck, I think. But you'd need to check
with someone who hasd used D2 equipment a bit about that since I have not.
wmc – via Autopilot!
Wayne, (and Leo): Both the Ampex VPR-300 D2 editor and Sony's DVR-10 D2 editor
have good 'ol composite analog inputs as well. I've used both several times
without problems. Of course, to use the component digital inputs, you'd have
to get transcoding of some sort, as you mentioned…
Now how about 2 D2's and a Flyer! Pricey, but WOW!
Taking the soda bottles in,
Trent
ReAnimators
Trent,
Thanks for the reply. Would you know how the transcoding would be done? I
have no earthly idea, way out of my league.
We are getting the Flyer as well (pre-ordered it with my dealer already), so
hopefully we'll be integrating D2, Flyer and Beta SP (Would Digital Betacam be
easier to connect to all this, instead of D2? I'm still not sure which way to
go…)
Thanks again!
POlo
Leo: There should be no appreciable difference connecting either digital
BetaCam or D2. The D2's, of course are quite a bit more expensive than digital
beta. Either way, you'll have a mighty fine setup.
As far as a transcoder goes, these are "Broadcast" devices that haven't (yet)
seen desktop price reductions. If you have a broadcast dealer in your area,
they should be able to help you out. As of last year I heard that a quality
transcoding device is in the 6-8000 dollar range.
We're an animation house but are also looking at the Flyer, not only to dump
animation to, but for the Non-Linear advantage as well. Right now, only one of
the TV stations in our area (with a large post facility) has Non-Linear
capability.
If you're stuck on the transcoder, let me know and I'll see what I can dig up
info wise…
Regards,
Trent/ReAnimators
Trent,
I appreciate your reply…
I had no idea that the transcoder was in that price range 🙁
I have to get it nonetheless, because we are changing formats in the near
future: either D2 or DigitalBetaSP, or a combination of both…
I would like to be a bum and take advantage of your offer though, I would love
any info you could throw my way on the transcoder… (price, availablity,
specs, hook-ups, etc…)
I JUST GOT MY RAPTOR TODAY!!! Sorry, I just had to let someone know 🙂
I thank you again for your response.
POlo
Will see what I can find regarding transcoding devices. And I'm GREEN with
envy over receipt of you Raptor! :->
We're still collecting our GREEN!
Trent/ReAnimators
Trent,
Thanks in advance for the info!
Raptor, nice…. 😉
POlo
Trent,
Sorry to bug you, but you said the D2s' have composite analog inputs and
compnent. Is the component you are referring to the standard Y R-Y B-Y of
MII Betacam fame? And if that is the case, is there a digital composite
input? And are any of the inputs actually (and correctly) referred to as
"D2 Inputs"?
Now I'm confused. Does D2 exist as a digital signal on a wire, or is it
merely a tape format and a composite analog bandwidth spec for
unit-to-unit transmission? IOTW, can the Toaster composite outputs
accurately be referred to as D2 outputs?
wmc – via Autopilot!
Typically D2 comes on a digital parallel (DB25?) connector, on your D2
decks. That would probably be an add-on for the flyer.
More accurately, D2 is a tape format based upon digitized composite video
sampled at a 4x subcarrier rate (14.3MHz). Digital composite video can be sent
in parallel (DB25 connector) or serially (BNC connector). While the Toaster
_does_ have the digital video in about the correct format, it lacks the
"housekeeping" signal components H- and V-sync. The Toaster also lacks the I/O
drivers for digital video.
I understand NewTek will be releasing some of the technical details soon so
that third party developers can provide such interfaces (providing there is any
user interest).
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Aki,
Thanks for the info. Now I'm wondering how the lines are used. Are they
the standard parallel port use or are the "video" specific (like one line
for a synch pulse, 24 for data….?)
I think if I make it to NAB next year, I will make it a point to look at
the back of all these digital decks to figure out the connector situation.
wmc – via Autopilot!
I think the D2 spec has 8- and maybe 10-bit samples at 4fsc, maybe the
connector just has a clock and data lines… Bruce?
That's it – 8 and, optionally, 10 data lines plus one clock. Each data line
and clock has an inverted signal paired with it. Therefore, those 11 pairs
pretty much use up your standard DB25 connector. The remaining lines are
grounds.
Within the data stream, various words have various meanings. These are decoded
into such things as H- and V-sync. Now, V-sync is reduced down to one or two
words; this leaves the vertical blanking with lots of room to send other data,
including digital audio.
Serial digital video simply takes the above, parallel digital words and sends
them in a block-encoded format. (Block coding is where you take 8 bits and
code it into a predefined 9 bit pattern. The receiver decodes this unique
pattern back into 8 bits. Block codes are self-clocking, thereby saving wires
and bandwidth.)
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/__) ,_ _ _
_/__) / /__/ /_ /_-'
Wayne: The component inputs on a D2 machine are not the same as Beta/MII
inputs (naturally! That would make sense! :-> If anything's to be called D2
inputs, I'd suppose they'd be it, though I understand very few users use them.
I don't understand the relationship between D2 tape format and the internal
"D2" signal processing the Toaster uses. Only that they are both 4:2:2, which,
adding to the confusion, is sometimnes referred to as "component digital".
The historical advantage to D2 (and it's major selling point) is that whatever
signal you input to a D2 VTR, you'l get the exact signal out again, generation
after generation. In the real world however, there is some signal loss after
about 30-40 generations. Of course, no edit should require 40 passes. The
other advantage to D2 is the error-c correction circuitry-basically fancy
dropout compensators. This is superb and will fix many problems, although the
same problems are usually generated by the D2 transport itself.
I'll try to get some specific info regarding the D2 recording system. My
roomate is a tech at the local TV station.
BTW, last time I checked, a Sony D2 editor was running about $80,000.
Trent/ReAnimators
The 4:2:2 digital component is not D2, more like D1. D2 is just 4, 1
component sampled at 4 times the color subcarrier freq., a digitized NTSC
waveform.
Ahh! Thanks Aki!
Trent/ReAnimators
PMFJI, but I need to correct the comment about D2 being 'component'
video.
D1 is the 4:2:2 component digital standard. D2 is a COMPOSITE digital std.
As someone mentioned the other day, it is basically an NTSC signal
digitized a 4x chroma subcarrier.
Keep On Toastin'
Erik Flom – ELF Works 3D Construction Co.
Thanks for the info Eric. In any case, I can't afford one! :-.
Trent/ReAnimators
Wayne,
Never mind about those numbers… I already got them 🙂
I'm not very technical (more artistic-minded) so I really don't know how to
connect D2 to the Toaster…
Maybe someone else will jump in and help?
Thanks Wayne!
Polo