#Raptor questions
26 messages in this thread
Hello!
I just got my Raptor today (will hook it all up tomorrow), but I have some
questions regarding Beta issues stated in the letter…
What does it mean when it says "Image sequences sent to the Screamer
processors, or Raptor, will cause both the Toaster and processor systems to
lock. 1 to 60 frames may render before the lock occurs."?
The way I understand it (and I hope I'm very wrong) is that after rendering 60
frames it will lock up?? I have been waiting for delivery since the pre-order
stage 'cause I have a 1500+ frame animation so….
I would appreciate a quick response from NewTek employees in the forum, and
anyone else that has a Raptor installed as well.
Thank you all for your responses, in advance.
POlo
Any animation you try and render that has an animated texture, -i.e.,
image sequence, will lock up after 60 or so frames. Same for sequencial
bkg images. For some reason, the ScreamerNet software dosen't like image
sequences as part of a scene file. That does not mean that it will lock
up after rendering 60 or frame of a normal animation, just one that
contains sequentially numbered image maps.
GT
Greg,
Thanks for putting my mind at ease!
POlo
I guess then…
PAR Sequence + ScreamerNet = lock up
This is good to know.
Joe Maulucci >>> Accadia Electronic Arts
DTV & DTP BBS 1-716-882-1774
It's important to know that the reason for this (Image sequence probs) is
not the Raptor or LightWave. By all indications it appears to be a
networking bog down problem with the Networking software used to hook the
Toaster to the Raptor. As greg said, eventually there will be a solution
and you will not thve to babysit.
JG
I do "normal" animations all the time using sequential image maps. If what
you say is true, then how does all the sequential mapping we see in
SeaQuest get accomplished? Locking up after 60 frames sounds like it would
be a big hassle.
Perhaps, I misunderstood the previous posts…I would love to someday own
das Rapteur 🙂 and hadn't heard about the problem.
Stephen Bailey
Sawyer & Bailey Film and Video – Chicago
Nothing like rendering 60 frames, crash, reset,
render the next 60, crash — a minor bug, right.
Well I guess it would depend on rendering minutes per frame.
10 minutes per would mean resetting every 10 hours.
Joe Maulucci >>> Accadia Electronic Arts
DTV & DTP BBS 1-716-882-1774
Nope, you didn't misunderstand my post. It is somewhat of a pain having
to babysit the Raptors when we have image sequences, but we usally use the
Toaster rendering farm if we have composite shots or other sequencial
images as part of a scene. Our farm consists of over 40 dedicated
machines run through our own proprietary control software. Although it
requiers the use of a large number of machines, it is non the less very
efficient. This is a brut force approach to solving a problem though, and
not a very economical one either, hence the Raptor.
As soon as the problem is fixed, I would imagine that we'll dump the Amiga
farm altogether and replace it with Raptors.
The Raptors have definately proven their ability to chew through complex
scenes, as they excell at FPU intensive operations such as raytracing. I
would imagine that future incarnations of the Raptor will be even more
powerfull, especially at FPU operations, which will level the playing
field for cost effective houses like ours, not to mention the huge
advantages provided to the home based professional.
In spite of this one shortcomming, it will be fixed, and anyone who wishes
to pursue a professional career at home or through a small business would
be served well by getting one.
GT
Greg,
It sounds like you work for Deskstation!
Much better than some of those software companies, eh?
How is your Screamer?
DH
Hey David,
Still Screaming. Only little prob is the sequences…
Thanks for asking.
JG
My mom always told me, "if you can't say something nice…."
GT
PMFJI,~
Amen to that!
Was that Greg Teegarden speaking or someone using his Compuserve account!?
I agree with Greg's post and predict that all your image sequencing
problems will be fixed shortly…
Grant Boucher – Amblin Imaging
"It's hard to believe grown-ups do this for a living."
GREG, So what are the work arounds to this sequence/Raptor problem? GOd, half
of a show open I am working on uses sequences….sometimes six or seven at a
time… what does that mean, it'll lock up after 10 frames? :}
Well, I guess I have a lot to look foreward to!
GM
Leo,
The message you posted is dated yesterday. That means you hooked up the Raptor
today. SO?????? How's it doin'
Thanks to Greg T. for explaining the problem on image sequencing. I couldn't
have explained it any better.
Don
Don,
WEll, it looks goos so far! I just came back from the studio about an hour
ago, after hooking it all up (I have two VT4000 working with ParNet and sharing
a Bernoulli 150MB Box, on top of that I have a PAR and a TBC IV for animation
control and videotaping to HD)! It has not been an easy set-up, I guess it
would be better if the PAR helped out a bit here!
The render times look good, we tried rendering simple stuff and found out that
although the rendering time itself was around 15 seconds for a basic pan
movement from an object to another, the saving of the RGB data to the HD took
somewhere around 32 seconds in the average! That's a hell of a long time for
saving to disk, no? I figure that more complex scenes will take better care of
the rendering/saving time.
We left it working overnight on a frame that Raptor-less it took 64 hours to
complete on a A4000 w/18MB RAM.
We'll see how it goes, but I'll keep you posted on any new stuff I find (other
than a few lock-ups I experienced today, but hey, it's beta software)…
POlo
Leo,
You can still do image sequences, and I have seen someone do them on a
pre-beta-beta version of the software and hardware. You just have to babysit
it until Newtek solves the problem – but it can be done with professional
results.
My guess is that your 64 hour animation took around 6.3 hours with the Raptor –
nice huh? When I first got Wavemaker, I tried rendering the Universe scene
just to see how it looked – well it took 14 days. For the hell of it, I tried
it with the Raptor and it took 1.3 days (with reflection and shadows ON).
Thats a lot of days saved! By the way, try the independent rendering option –
its suppose to be even faster, and the images are stored in sequence.
Adib,
6 hours? Try __41 MINUTES__!!!!!
I cannot believe it! We are already thinking of getting a second Raptor to
network all the A4000s and the four 2000s we have!
Unbelievable…
POlo
Get that on film! I am sure Don would like to document that for his
advertising. What kind of scene was it that provided such awsome acceleration
from the Raptor?
Adib,
I was just one frame from a 1500+ animation we just finished rendering prior to
arrival of Raptor.
The scene was finished (and began to be rendered) in October of last year, and
it finished rendering a week before the Raptor came in.
We had one of the frames in our "Hall of Fame" for rendering records (not
exactly _SPEED_ records). This one frame is the last part of a telescope
suspended in space. To create it with a realistic look of lens, we used lots of
refraction coupled with reflection and a nice map of glass, all this with
antialias in Med-Res. Plus ray traced shadows and reflections!
This _ONE_ frame took 64 Hrs. 44 Mins. 34 Secs to render back in — I think —
January. We saved it in case we would have a problem with the target tape (and
out of pity for ourselves, really).
When I got the Raptor, I wanted to put it to the test and try that one frame
with the same settings as before, and there you have it:
64 Hours + = __41 MINUTES__!
Incredible, really…
POlo
I think 'Maybe' your other rendering machine (A4000 ?) is tweaked from the
sounds of the results of your Raptor tests. Some how the configuration may
not be right. 65 hours for a Video res frame??? You must be doing some
awsome stuff.
The longest its taken so far on a single frame for me is about 12 hours,
and thats for Print res with aliasing.
I can't wait to hear reports of Raptor rendering times compared to a quick
2000/040 or Warp board.
Have Fun.
….John
John,
I can hardly believe it myself! No tweaking on the Amiga though (basic 18MB
RAM and 200MB HD(?)…
The frame was #114 of a 1500+ animation with lots of reflection and refraction
(plus antialias and such, at med-res). We plan on re-rendering maybe the whole
thing in hi-res (we had some tape drop-outs when we recorded the animation).
POlo
Don,
I just rendered a frame that Raptor-less took 64 hours to finish.
___41 MINUTES___!!!!! with Raptor!
More exploring left to do….
Way to go NewTek and Deskstation Tech!!
POlo
Leo,
Thanks for the kudos! Sounds like you found a test that offers improvements on
the way, way upper end of the spectrum. I wouldn't expect to see that kind of
improvement on many other things but I'm happy you feel you got your money's
worth.
I want to also thank those of you who have gotten Raptors for your generous
feedback on the product and for sharing the rendering improvements you've
seen. We have many new things planned for this market. Phil Kurz and Martin
Fanning are doing a tremendous job building support for our product in the desk
top video market. Even Microsoft has offered their support and are very
excited about having a toe in this incredible market.
In the next several months we intend to deliver even more exciting products.
Stay tuned………….
Don
Kudos well deserved, Don!
POlo