#P90 CPU's
28 messages in this thread
I am going to buy a P90. Does anyone have any suggestions? I will be using
it for rendering in 3ds and other Adesk apps.
The ZEOS seems to be one of the better contenders.
Nonetheless, I have heard that it can only handle 2 full length cards and
even with some of the smaller cards if there is any overlap there is a
conflict with the P90 voltage dropper card.
Also, it has onboard scsi-II. I am not sure if this would be better than
PCI SCSI-II or not? I would be really interested in knowing if PCI SCSI-II
is desireable or not?
Is anyone real happy with any of the P90's out there?
Thanks,
Stephen
call me. i do 3d animation/multimedia production. Use pentium 60/66/90's. Can
be a problem if you're not carefull. Some SCSI bugs on the 90's…. IPAS and
90's? Hmm… heard rumors but our board runs great. I also am lead tech. You've
got the name, the # is 214-233-8052
Stephen,
>> I am going to buy a P90. Does anyone have any suggestions? <<
I'd look into the Micron. The price/performance and flexibility in terms of
configuration not to mention compatibility with Autodesk products makes it a
good buy IMO.
-JE
I just read the latest PC magazine (V.13 N.12) review p.165 on 90 Mhz pentiums.
I was suprized to find that they gave Micron one of the _lowest_ bang for the
buck ratings in their graph on p. 168.
Actually, the graph shows the Micron as being good in price and bad in
performance. This is nuts. Their performance ratings on p. 175 place the
Micron as probably the _best_ one.
Look at the Winstones, Disk Winmarks, Processor, Disk, and Graphics charts.
Micron is the best, or nearly the best, in all of them. The only shortcomings
were Video and DOSMarks.
The textual review (p. 184) does at least give the Micron an Editors choice,
but fails to mention the highly affordable upgrade options (see p. 104).
No, I do not have a financial interest in Micron. But, I think I just talked
myself into buying one. Now where is that credit card . . . 🙂
— James — MAP —
James,
I think reviews often don't tell the whole story, and sometimes you have to be
able to read between the lines as you did. These reviews seem to be getting
more and more biased, with evaluations based on questionable parameters. For
instance it is well know that some display card developers optimize their chips
to pass Winmark tests, where in fact in real world application they are slower
than other display cards who ratings don't appear as good. Which is why you
need independent reviews, not reviews sponsored by the magazine in which the
product is advertised.
Also what is good for animation may not rate as high in Windows tests. I think
the Micron is a good system for the money. I think however if money was not a
consideration I would probably get a DEC Alpha. But I see the Micron as a solid
stable workhorse and very suitable to the task.
-JE
If you're at all interested in PC's, don't read PC Magazine. I think they have
the worst reporting of any journal I've ever read.
John Tissavary (LUNA cie)
I used to read PC Magazine from cover to cover for years. In the last few
years I have noticed an extreme political bias in support of Microsoft. It is
still a good magazine for the utilites and new product bulletins.
Still, if you want to see a textbook case of bias, read Windows Magazine. At
least PC Magazine offers some real-world data to support their claims. In
Windows Magazine, I have seen product comparisons with claims founded on a
shadey rumor and presented as scripture.
— James — MAP —
John,
I really like what the micron has to offer.
Micron has a 512k Cache upgrade for $200. Is it worth it? Do
Acad/3ds/AApro benifit by having the extra 256k of cache?
Stephen
Stephen,
Basically the cache upgrade will help you most if you have more than 32 MB of
RAM installed. As Micron is a RAM producer the price is probably pretty
reasonalbe. I'd have to check on it, which I will do if you are seriously
contemplating purchasing it. Let me know.
-JE
John,
I will purchace the cpu with 32meg of ram. I will then steel 32meg of ram
from my 486/66 and upgrade the new 90mhz to 64meg.
I have been rendering shopping centers with and my models are between 10 and
13.5 meg.
One of the main reasons for looking at the MICRON is that there are 6 slots
for ram. 64meg is not going to last very long… I know I will need more.
There will always be 64+ in this cpu. Therefore, will the extra 256 Cache
help on this type of work? Do you have any ideas about percentage increase
in rendering time?
Thanks,
Stephen
Stephen,
You might want to consider getting the Optimize IPAS with models of 10 to 13.5
Mb sizes. It really does a nice job minimizing vertices and faces and can help
significantly increase rendering times.
>> There will always be 64+ in the CPU. <<
The extra 256 cache will definitely help. In theory you'd like to have 256k
cache for every 32 Mb of RAM. Its hard to say exactly how much of a performance
increase you'll get but between 5 and 10% would not be unreasonable, which can
really add up over a few hundred frames. To get a feel for it you can turn off
the cache in your 66 and time a render, then turn it back on again.
I take it that you are already using 72 pin simms in your 66? If not you will
not be able to use the RAM from your 66 in your P90. Something to be aware of.
Micron's pricing on ram is very competive BTW.
-JE
John,
I wish I knew about MICRON's pricing on ram before. I am aware of there
prices, very reanonable. I could have saved a lot of money on ram. It
won't be the last time that ignorance "of a better deal" bites me. Oh well.
Yes, all of my 16meg simms are 72pin.
Yes
Thanks for the input no the cache.
Stephen
Stephen,
Sounds like you've got a good plan and have the details worked out. Very wise!
<g> I think you'll be happy with your new system and I expect you'll get good
support from Micron as they like to tought the fact that they maitain
compatibility with Autodesk products.
-JE
John,
I don't think I could get much simpler. I also don't have the optimize
IPAS. I'm not sure it would do much to a simple diciduous tree made from
Silicon Garden. The trees that I am using are only about 80k but I have
200+ of them. I could send you one of my trees if you want to give it a
try.
Stephen
Stephen,
I'm afraid I missed or just spaced your message. Sorry about that. You were
mentioning that you had 80k trees but 200+ of them, and I'm not sure what it is
in reference to. I have optimized trees and it does help. FWIW I have become an
instant convert to Optimize. I now have 3 favorite modeling tools, Optimize,
Displace, and Fractilize. In this game of PC's vs workstations which many
people have told me is more a matter of bus speed than processing power every
face/vertice you can get rid of helps. I've been working on a project which
before optimizing was 112k faces and after optimizing I got it down to 55k.
Rendering times decreased by 40-45%. That in my estimation is a massive savings
in time and money. More valuable than upgrading to a pentium, not that you
can't benefit by the processing power but that benefit is wasted without
totally efficient modeling etc. I'm guessing but I would suspect you could cut
your trees poly's by 20% without a reduction in coverage. I hope this answer's
your question, if not fill me in and I'll try again. I'd be happy to optimize
one of your trees for you so that you could compare.
-JE
I could be wrong, but aren't the SG trees already optimized (if you have the
optimize button on)? I guess it might optimize some on morphable trees and
plants. I'll have to test both.
Kurt
Kurt,
You're probably right, I've got an older version of SG and haven't seen and
didn't realise that was what the upgrade entailed. Thanks for "optimizing" my
awareness. <g>
-JE
John,
I will send you a couple of trees. Heck, I would like to send you my whole
13+ meg file <g>. Ok, I'll just send the trees.
Stephen
>> I will send you a couple of trees. <<
I checked out your trees and they seem to be constructed with the newer version
of SG, and so are therefore fully optimized. I ran the normal optimization
value of 2.00 which produced the same result in terms of faces and vertices.
Just for the heck of it I tried a value of 12.00 which is fairly high in terms
of reducing faces etc. and the result was the same. I haven't worked with the
later release of SG but it appears to not only produce good looking vegetation
but also fully optimized. So I guess that Pentium is going to have its work cut
out for it. <g> If its any consolation you would'nt have considered it even
feasible to do what you're now attempting, to do a year ago. At least I
wouldn't have. As I mentioned to Kurt McKeever, who pointed out that there was
an optimization switch in SG, I wasn't aware of as I have an earlier release
and just haven't gotten around to upgrading it. It seems to be doing its job
very well. But there may be other things in your scene that could benefit from
Optimize.
-JE
John,
Yes, you are right, only a year ago 200+ deciduous, 100+ pines, a parking lot
with striping, a "detailed outside" of a building, a couple of trucks, a pylon
sign, other assorted things, and all in one model, was only in my dreams <g>.
The trees are really what kill me. Right now trees are about 11 meg. The
deciduous are the worst. I am doing my pine trees with 8 faces per tree,
opacity and textrue maps. I am mostly satisfied with the results.
Oh well, I guess I will have to buy another cpu. The story of my life <g>.
Stephen
I'm sure I will check out the optimize on the rest of my model sometime
soon.
Steven:
I have a 486/66 from Micron, and have had absolutely zero problems for the 8
months I've had it.
I'm seriously looking at (drooling over) the Pentuim 90 system they have- the
one with 32MB ram and 1 gig drive. It's $5000. I've looked all around for
better systems for less money, and haven't been able to find them. (I even
have a friend that runs a computer store.) Most systems I've added up,
containing 32MB ram, a good 17" monitor, PCI, SCSI-2 GIG drive, and at 90mhz
are at least 500+ more. The only thing I'm not sure about is if there are any
little conflicts with 3DS. Mabe Autodesk has one to test.
If it runs 3ds bug free, get one. -but I'd want a MGA Impression PCI board-
not an option I know about. (Mabe Autodesk will suggest it to them. I'd
appreciate it.)
JNJ
John,
The Micron P90 works very with 3DS. They also offer an MGA II card as an
option.
-JE
John,
I don't think the MGA Impression is an option with the MICRON. I may ask to
get the CPU without a graphics card and then add it. What's the difference
between the MGA Impression and the MGA II+ with 2meg? I hope it has
AutoCAD drivers.
Stephen
>I don't think the MGA Impression is an option with the MICRON.
I just called Micron today and left a message to someone I was transferred to.
I said that since Micron is the supplier, and that there have been many people
talking about Micron in this forum (and, I'm sure in other Adesk forums), I
said they needed the Impression PCI. (for obvious reasons) Press this. ASK for
it, and mabe they will carry it. I want a system from them, and also want the
Impression.. and I'm sure there's more like us. So bug them enough and we'll
probably get it. It's crazy to have to buy the stealth card, and then the
impression, when all you want is the impression. They carry the MGA, they
should carry the impression. Don't take no for an answer. <g>
JNJ
>> the Impression PCI…
FYI, there's no such thing. The MGA Impression is only available in ISA and VL
bus models, and nothing yet exists for PCI that will support hardware shading
(only the MGA ultima line is out for PCI, but it does not support 3d shading).
I was told of an "Impression Pro PCI" in the works, but I don't know how soon
that will be out, but when it does become available, I hope Pavel's IPAS
previewers will run on it.
David
>> the Impression PCI…
I thought someone (Ara?) saw one at Comdex, or some other show.. I figured it
would be out now, or shortly. Mabe not, I guess.
JNJ
It may have been announced or even shown at Comdex, but a rep
over in the Matrox forum just told me it was "…in the works…",
but he didn't give me a release date. So I suppose it's very possible
it'll be out soon… but then again….?
Thanks for the clarification. It'll be a little while until I get a
system anyways. Just doing research now. I hope it's out by the
time I get the Micron.