#Support for Alladin
12 messages in this thread
I am about to buy an Alladin for my video work and am wondering if there are
any plans to support the frame buffers from 3DS for frame rendering? I know the
policy, about futures, but I am hoping for a little glimmer of hope for
support.
Thanks,
Tom
Hey Tom,
How goes it..?
>> am wondering if there are any plans to support the frame buffers from 3DS
for frame rendering… <<
Typically drivers for this kind of thing are provided for by the hardware
manufacturer which is why it is often hard to get support in terms of a driver
for a specific application… note my efforts in regard to getting a device
independent driver for the Ill Pro. Matrox is supporting 3DS and promises to
provide device independence… but will that include the utilities to take
advantage of those features…? I don't know. They may be provided to 3D party
developers but not as user accessible utilities. As Alladin has provided what
it considers a full featured package, it is unlikely they will be interested in
providing drivers to allow its framebuffer to be accessed by 3DS. But you never
know… stranger things are happening…
I don't know if you caught my thread regarding integrating 3DS Ani Studio etc.
to match Alladin's fully integrated solution, but I think you may have helped
my case. I think it would be great to have these capabilities incorporated
with 3ds and its complimentary package Ani Studio. If that was the case would
you still be interested in acquiring an Alladin? And if so, what would you see
the advantage being? Hope you don't mind my asking, but if you do, just say so.
I understand that these can be delicate decisions for a variety of reasons.
Thanks,
John
Hi John,
No Problem on asking my why's on the Alladin. I missed your thread on the 3DS
Studio stuff. Not sure how it would work for me.
I am looking to simplify my editing setup and the Alladin seems to be the way
to go as far as hardware. Right now I have a kludge of a setup and I'm tired of
fooling with it. I have a basic A/B roll system with a EVO9850 Hi8 source, a
JVC BR-S622 as a source. I also have a UVW 1800 that can be either a source or
record deck. My other record deck is a JVC BR-S822. I have all this fed to a
Echo Labs PC-3 switcher. (The PC-3 also requires a Y/C black reference! how's
that for odd? I have a Microtime TBC for just the sync for the switcher) The CG
title work is done with Deputy and a Magni for genlock. All this works fine and
allowed me to achieve my goal of "desktop video", but the signal path is long
and causes problems as I am sure you know. I just got the new beta version of
Oz from Videomedia and it has full support for the Alladin. This will alow me
to get rid of the 2 board PC-3, the magni and lots of video cable. The CG is
built into the Alladin by Inscriber. The Alladin does all of the DVE wipes etc
that everyone wants nowdays. My productions have always stuck to the standard
SMPTE wipes until now. I'm looking to jazz up my work a little.
I don't expect to use the Topas stuff at all. I did a check and found out that
all of the special frames and Geni effects are just targa files with alpha.
Until I get my PVR I'll still use Turbo targa for frame outlays. Besides, even
the venerable old Targa+ will do some things the Alladin won't…
Does that answer the question??? if not fire back and I'll try again.
Cheers, Tom
Tom,
>> Does that answer the question??? <<
Most definitely… the areas you touched on relate to the "switcher" portion of
the Alladin, which really isn't addressed in the configuration I've outlined.
And Angelo noted, there is a non-linear editor called On-line which does
incorporated some "switching" effects but none of this really addresses the
issue of intergrating components of varied sources like the Alladin's
"switcher" portion does.
I can see how on that basis alone you would find this system an attractive
proposition. I think the 3DS/Ani-Studio solution that I've outlined would still
be of interest to you in that a)you have a Targa, which would allow you to
frame grab through Ani Studio and paint directly, b)would give you frame
grabbing rotoscoping capabilities integrated with rendering through 3DS.
What I'd envisioned was a module within Ani-Studio which could control/activate
rendering in 3DS and also trigger framegrabbing through a variety of source
decks. Possible scenarios would be Laser Disk, Max, PAR, PVR, Accom, UVW-1800
all dependent on drivers from the respective companies, many of which will be
available by the time 3DS is released. Moonlight productions makers of SoftVTR
have a whole array of RS-422 drivers… but I don't know if they're supporting
NT as yet.
AS would then be able to take frames off a source deck, combine them with
renderings from 3DS and whatever over parameters had been setup in AS for
layering or tint motion etc. and either output them to hard disk or directly to
a second output device… which could be anyone of the aforementioned
devices… all done essentially unattended once the sequence was started.
This may be of interest you and then again it may not. I really don't think the
Alladin is capable of automating the sequence as I've outlined it here, so in
many respects the systems are quite different even though they have similiar
elements incorporated into them.
So thanks, I think that each solution has its emphasis, but that even though
they have similiar elements the fundemental purpose of each is be quite
different.
John
John,
Ok, now I see what you mean.. Right now I can control any of my decks from 3DS
for rotoscoping. The kind of rotoscoping that I'm working with grabs a frame of
video from a specific TC puts it up as the background and then I can render the
keyframe objects over the video background. Then it puts it back out to tape on
another deck. Is this what your talking about except with the paint type
features of AS? If so, then I like it, they already have the drivers for 3DS. I
don't know how it would work with other deck protocalls, but it works fine with
my VLAN setup.
Tom
Hi Tom,
Yes, it sounds like you've got it. Basically it comes down to framebuffer
access for painting and grabs through Ani Studio, and some control interfaces
to automate grabbing and activation of 3DS for more elaborate combinations of
compositing… tremendous amount of potential here, especially in a production
environment for titleing/overlays not to mention automating rotoscoping and
rendering/compositing etc. Yes some of these features are already possible in
several different scenarios but combined between two integrated software
packages like 3DS and AS would provide really tremendous flexibility… not to
mention the simple yet important things like rendering from 3DS and painting in
AS the frame you just rendered just by toggling applications… most hardware
could be incorporated somehow into the input/output nature of this arrangement,
including the Ill Pro and the PVR which would need a seperate framebuffer but
would none the less be capable of the same functions as a VTR/Player…
It sounds like even with an Alladin you would find this arrangement of benefit,
as it brings specific capabilities to 3DS/AS which really can't be matched in
any other solution presently available… and that's great! Hope it happens…
Thanks for your comments… insightful as always.
Regards,
John
>>it is unlikely they will be interested in providing drivers to allow its
framebuffer to be accessed by 3DS
Although Alladin comes bundled with Topas, Pinnacle has been touting 3DS as a
'compatible' software application from the very beginning. If Pinnacle and
Crystal Graphics not had such a long working relationship, we might have seen
3DS in the bundle. Actually, If you consider the Topas as free, then there is
little disincentive for people to go ahead and get 3DS too. The integration of
Topas with Alladin is very minimal. I've been recommending adding a PAR as the
animation output and running it through the Alladin as a 3rd or 4th input.
-Paul
Hi Paul,
>> if you consider the Topas as free <<
How else could one consider it? <G>
>> The integration of Topa with Alladin is very minimal… <<
But there probably is a driver to access the framebuffer, and Tom's question
was in that regard. If Pinnacle is touting 3DS as compatible that it would seem
reason to conclude that they would provide a driver for it as well. If so, then
integration along the lines of what I've been talking about with 3DS and AS
would also be a natural when integrated with the rest of what Alladin has to
offer… Actually it sounds like a very complementary set up… but only if the
framebuffer portion can be accessed directly as with an Ill Pro or a Targa… I
really don't know but again, this would be something I'd like to see happen. I
don't know if I'm really in the market for the Alladin as its really more than
I need but… you never know.
Thanks,
John
>>Alladin as its really more than I need
Real time effects are very appealing -they are what everyone really wants.
Software or silicon that's the question . . .
>> Software of silicon that's the question… <<
That it is… and I wouldn't even venture to speculate on which will lead…
Its apparently not quite as simple as one might imagine… <g>
Thanks btw… 🙂
John
>>adding a PAR as the animation output and running it through the Alladin as a
3rd or 4th input.>>
That's my plan except with the PVR if it ever ships…
Tom
>>with the PVR if it ever ships…
DPS says this is the week!