#PAR/Audio SMPTE Synch
26 messages in this thread
Can anyone recommend an audio card that will provide SMPTE synch with the PAR
card? I am doing lip synch animation and I need to have a card that will allow
me to edit the sound files using envelopes (scaling, being able to pick a spot
on the waveform and know the SMPTE value, etc…). I also need a cuelist for
at least a four track mix that SMPTE synchs to the PAR or upcomming Perception
board. At one time I was recommended Turtle Beach's Tahiti card, but
apparently it doesn't provide SMPTE synch, same with the Monterrey. Thank you.
Bruce
I use the Turtle Beach's Monterey card for audio recording, SAW for editing and
a MIDIQuest MX32 for SMPTE/MIDI control.
SAW (short for Software Audio Workshop) is an 8 track audio editor/mixer. It
tracks SMPTE provided by the MX32 card (it reads and writes SMPTE). Call
Innovative Quality Software at (702) 733-7854. The software is efficient and it
is great despite the way the developer's look (his face shows up when you press
the "About" button…
The Midiquest board is a 2 port/32 midi channels with SPMTE in and out. It
controls synth and a real 8 track mixer. I get all my MIDI/Audio stuff from a
company up in Indiana. Call Sweetwater Sound, Inc. at (219) 432-8176. They have
all of the above plus they know a lot about this stuff and they will help you
out in whatever you need.
You should also take a look at a program called Cakewalk for MIDI sequencing
and control. You can schedule any kind of MCI events based on SMPTE timecode.
Just lay out your audio (wave files), special effects (both wave and MIDI
sequences), mixer control and let it roll.
Very Good Gus!
Great Information!
The "A" Team always comes through! 🙂
Murph'
He, he, he…
Yo, I got your call the other day. I have put so many hours of work lately that
I've decided to throw my watch away so I don't have to look at it….
Gus,
>> Yo, I got your call the other day. I have put so many hours of work lately
that I've decided to throw my watch away so I don't have to look at it….<<
I threw my watch away about 18 months ago. I'm serious! I got so obsessive
about looking at it so I wouldn't be late for things that people pointed it out
to me, so I threw it away and never wear one anymore. Besides….isn't is
fashionable to be late? <BG>
Murph'
Thanks for the info.
Bruce
Bruce- I use the same setup as Gus for SMPTE and audio. It works flawlessly.
However, you may have a problem wanting to lock to the PAR. I'm not aware of
any way for the PAR to lock to SMPTE. About the only thing I've seen is that
you can get a psuedo SMPTE readout in the Par software, but to my knowledge,
that's just a conversion from frames and doesn't really lock to anything. I
lock my animations and audio via a video editor. My audio locks to SMPTE and
the Editor fires the GPI trigger on the Par at the appropriate time. It's not
pretty, but it keeps the audio and video together. -Mark
I have been thinking about this SMPTE TC problem and the only way I see the PAR
to handle it is as VITC. With VITC and an external reader/writer one may be
able to rig the GPI or better yet if DPS came out with a pseudo RS-422 control
protocol to emulate true deck control of the PAR via a serial port. The trick
with VITC is it must be regenerated during the editing process to be contiguous
on the finished master. I'm not sure how one would achieve this yet in NLE.
Any ideas? Gus or John?
Don:
Having fought with this one for a while, I have found that the best method is
to just dump the PAR animations off to video and then chase lock audio to it
there. I realize that this is cheating (not NLE) but it works flawlessly,
every time, and my DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) likes this approach.
You could use your UVW-1800 for this easily.
Greg Pyros
>>You could use your UVW-1800 for this easily.
Yes, I did and it does work great. I even developed a set of clap board
graphics for syncing the audio (just to be cute) I use the graphic as a one
frame edit with a pulse of 1000 Hz. audio for the sound file.
It isn't that I need a way to to it but rather I was just academicly
interested. For now I only use the PAR for video along with elastic reality.
I tried using the Premier 4.0 but have not been successful with the MCI
drivers. I haven't really spent that much time at it though.
Greg,
>> then chase lock audio to it there… <<
Sounds like you're syncing the audio to your animations… is that correct?
What about a multi-segmented edit? Are you filling the audio sound bed after
the segments are edited as well?
Just curious…
John
John:
>> Sounds like you're syncing the audio to your animations… is
>> that correct?
Depends on the animation – for lip synching, it's the other way around. For
effects and sweetening, we do the video first. Or we'll start with the base
audio, add the video, then do the final audio.
Isn't digital wonderful?
Greg Pyros
Greg,
>> Or we'll start with the base audio, add the video, then do the final
audio… <<
That's basically what I was getting at. Makes for alot tighter edits and better
flow.
>> Isn't digital wonderful? <<
I think so, I hated having to throw up a one inch reel all the time, and with
these fast drives you can punch in the time code and you're there… can't beat
it. All the really creative stuff is done off-line anyway, though that line is
getting blurrier all the time. <g>
John
Hi Greg
I just got a PAR. ( I decided to wait until the PVR is REALLY debuged and then
sell my PAR to the highest bidder, also the PAR has more than the quality I
need for what I'm doing…)
Anyway… Could you please send info on your PAR IPAS?
Also…. Is there a way to use the PAR as a SMPTE generator ( to stripe TAPE?)
or is the SMPTE display just a conversion from the fram numbers? ( I'm pretty
sure it is,…… but I can dream..)
BTW… I'm having trouble logging on the DPS FTP site. On the DPS BBS it says
it is at ftp.dps-inc.com ( yes, it does say "dash" in the address) is this
right?
Thanks
David
David:
No, the frame numbers on the PAR are just that, frame numbers. No SMPTE
generator, and no way to access it externally if there was!
Here's the PAR IPAS info:
PAROUT is needed if you have a network. It allows you to totally automatically
take your rendered Targa files out to the PAR in order so that by the time your
rendering is completed, your files are already on the PAR.
PARCTL is a PAR player that runs as an IPAS within 3D Studio. It allows you to
play and step through animations.
PARIFL will automatically create IFL files from your PAR animations for use
within 3D Studio, allowing you to view the first frame of the animations first
to make sure you have the right one.
They are sold as a set of three, called the "Action IPAS PAR Library". They
are available directly from us or from your friendly local 3DS/PAR dealer. They
go for $295, or a $100 upgrade from NDUMP.
Greg Pyros
Greg,
I'm beginning to get confused. David Mennenoh seems to imply that using the
PAR with Razor Pro and the Monterrey sound board, animation sound synch is
possible.
>>Don, PMJI, but I've got the PAR, Razor Pro, and a TB Monterey. It works _very
>>well_. RP is great for doing audio editing. You can line up all of your
>>sound clips to timecode and have as many layers as you like. RP plays back
>>the .wav and the ani synced perfectly…
You seem to imply that currently there is no really good way to do lip synch
animation with a PAR, SMPTE locked to a Soundboard to provide multiple audio
track cueing.
>>Having fought with this one for a while, I have found that the best method
>>is to just dump the PAR animations off to video and then chase lock audio to
it >>there.
What does the PAR/Razor Pro/Monterrey combination provide, that isn't
multi-track lip synch sound?
Thanks, Bruce
Bruce:
>> You seem to imply that currently there is no really good way to do
>> lip synch animation with a PAR, SMPTE locked to a Soundboard to
>> provide multiple audio track cueing.
There is no way to SMPTE lock the PAR to anything, the best you can do is to
give it a GPI trigger. You can get close, but…
Greg Pyros
Ok I've been following but now I am confused.
If you digitize the audio and have it resident on your computer
and use a project file cant you create a completed single wave file
and play it back with complete time control to tape. Then just splice
the tape piece in???
Just confused..
Bob from The Design Shop..
Bob:
>> If you digitize the audio and have it resident on your computer
>> and use a project file cant you create a completed single wave
>> file and play it back with complete time control to tape. Then
>> just splice the tape piece in?
It's the "playing it back with complete time control to tape" where you will
need additional hardware. You will need a board to read time code, a tape deck
and also an editor capable of outputting time code and inserting audio only,
and the specialized software which can read the time code board and chase lock
to it (or at a minimum trigger it) while playing the audio file.
Not quite as easy as it sounds to get exact!
Greg Pyros
i'm synching to the the par on pentium gpi no delay
zeta three as a transport controler ^ to
a tascam 8 track
to a sequencer on a 486
with the genlock on tbc/par back into the zeta 3 to resolve the smpte
works perfectly!
Elisabeth:
Sounds interesting – a few questions:
>> i'm synching to the the par on pentium – gpi no delay
If you are using the PAR GPI trigger, then you are synching the PAR to
something else, aren't you?
>> zeta three as a transport controler
I'm not familiar with this thing – please elaborate!
>> to a tascam 8 track to a sequencer on a 486 with the genlock on
>> tbc/par back into the zeta 3 to resolve the smpte
I guess my main question is "where is the SMPTE coming from"? The PAR doesn't
output SMPTE, so you must have something else generating it, then triggering
the PAR from your 'Zeta 3' controller and chase locking your Tascam to that?
This would work, but is a bit complicated for most users, IMHO. Great
solution, though!
Greg Pyros
hi
the smpte is on track 8 of the tascam
the smpte on track 8 starts the zeta 3(a synchcronizer capable of controling
1 master 1 slave transport and 1 midi song pointer + the gpi trigger)
Don- You'd probably have a better idea of the possibilities than I would. I'm
pretty naive about most the video stuff. I'll have to reread the press release
on the Perception board, but it seems like there was some type of deck control
built into it. It would probably have to be a hardware thing as well as s/w.
I don't know. It would certainly be nice if it could be added to the PAR. I'm
really struggling with moving to the Perception, simply because I'm so happy
with my PAR (plus it means spending more $$$) -Mark
I have decided that the perception is more geared toward NLE applications where
the PAR is better suited for simple animation output. This is based on the
press release info we all have. We'll have to wait and see. For now I, too,
am very happy with my PAR and what is has done for me in my business. I have
not given the perception board much thought at this time. Actually, I have my
sights on a new betacam SP camcorder for next year and that will be all my
budget will stand for awhile.
Mark,
Thanks for the help. GPI triggering, does your set-up play back
at 30 fps without stutters ect…?
Bruce- My Par seems to play back fine at 30 fps. I will say that I really
don't keep the drive very full, and depending on the video content, I sometimes
have to lower the Block Limit and Q-Factor in the Par software to get it to
play properly. All in all, I really don't have many problems with my Par.
-Mark