CompuServe Thread

#ist browser impressions

11 messages in this thread
#56338From: RON TROYJul 8, 1989 10:23 PM
<continuation> I note that the 2 sample stacks don't seem to mean much to me. The hyperdex seems to have extremely minimal functionality. The calendar seemed to be very buggy, very hard to get it to display the current month's data, among other things. I was never quite sure where I was or where I was going. Eight – a question I asked earlier – will there be any way of converting Hypercard stacks to Ultracard stacks? If not, is it likely there will be enough uc users for software vendors to start writing stacks for uc? And what would those stacks be able to do? I hope no one takes any of this the wrong way. This is just an initial, somewhat uneducated impression of what may well have the makings of a great Ami product. And I note that I am very glad that Mike took the trouble of posting this demo here. Ron
#56379From: Thomas HoladayJul 9, 1989 7:51 AM
On the eighth point, since the cost of becoming an Ultracard "user" is jus the cost of downloading the browser, the normal chicken-and-egg paradox is neatly elminated. A stack author is in the same position as an artist, who konws that whether the art tool is DPaint, PPaint, ExpressPaint, or DigiPaint, or whatever, the resulting image can be legitimately viewed by any IFF display utility. This is not the case with Thinker or InfoMinder, two other hyperdocument editors which require both the author and end-user to make an $80+ purchase.
#56428From: RON TROYJul 9, 1989 4:11 PM
Very true. Having 'browser' available for just the cost of a disk or a download is the best way I know of to encourage authors to start writing for the product. I'm sure that such programs, like viewers have sold many copies of products like Dpaint, once people got to see what could result. Whap is a very good example of what's possible – I got it a year ago, found I really liked it, and paid the fee. Etc… Ron
#56380From: Roy S. LauferJul 9, 1989 7:56 AM
Ron, I "played" with hypercard for about 30 minutes over a year ago. This is my entire exposure to a program that appears to have generated almost one hundred "How to program HyperCard" type books, hundreds (if not thousands of PD stacks) and more hype than anything else (maybe they should have called it HypeCard, without the 'r'. Without proper documentation it is very diificult to know much about UltraCard. You only have the browser and the two sample stacks to go by. As often happens software companies never seem to include supplemental (in this case stacks) that do very much. They seem to leave that to the general public, which is a very poor public relations move. The two demo stacks left a lot to be desired. UltraDex should be called MiniDex. It is an example of what can be done with a minimum amount of time available, the calendar was not written well enough to display the month of July correctly. No evidence of "hypertext" was shown, and while tinkering with it I crashed my Amiga twice. I really don't know what to make of it. I hope that the first two stacks were just badly done, and that promised future stacks will show UltraCards true powers. The browser is over 200K large (HyperCard is known to be very memory hungry too) and seems slow to me, although perhaps it was because the stacks were floppy based instead of hard drive based. <continued>
#56381From: Roy S. LauferJul 9, 1989 7:57 AM
<continuation> In short, as you stated, all I see is a simple, perhaps more user friendly database program. I would assume that you could "whip up" similar applications with SuperBase (for a higher cost, and with more work). I'd like to see if UltraCard runs in hi-res, or on the workbench screen, whether it has hypertext capability, and better graphics than demonstrated in the stacks (if you tried to change the buttons fron rectangle to ovals you would notice that the shadows remained rectangular. I now have more questions about UltraCard than I did before the demo release. As far as stack compatibility, there is none. Someday someone may come out with a translator, but presently they are totally incompatible products. I look forward to seeing future stacks, perhaps from Tom or other people who will be getting their full version program this week. I want to see what this program can REALLY do! -RSL-
#56429From: RON TROYJul 9, 1989 4:11 PM
We both believe that it has a lot of potential, but so far have little idea of what that potential is. As to HYPErcard, yes, it has been noticably hyped! Ron
#56407From: Mike LehmanJul 9, 1989 12:43 PM
Please report what type of crashes (if any) you are having. The browser will continue to get smaller. The stacks we have posted are just the beginning. I expect that we will post at least 2 to 3 stacks per week in the coming weeks so that you all can see what the program is really good for. After all, just like a compiler, this product is simply an applications generator engine. In reply to the resolution question! We support (in 1.01a) 320×200 320×400 640×200 640×400. In the next release we will support: User defined Width and Height Overscan etc. Please send me (preferably via EasyPlex) your suggestions. Mike Lehman Intuitive Technologies. p.s. We are publishing this product ourselves to give users the maximum support (i.e. direct contact with ME). Please use this support pathway to make suggestions and bug reports. We want UltraCard to succeed and this browser uploaded to CIS is just the beginning. p.p.s If you are involved with a user group please send me a UPS address and I will ship the latest browser and stacks to your group for distribution.
#56430From: RON TROYJul 9, 1989 4:11 PM
I'll let Roy tell you about the crashes he had. I think that once I see some better stacks I'll have a better idea of the possibilites. I do suggest that you modify browser to 1. change the name to not conflict with the existing browser program 2. allow the user to save his preferences. I hope you take my comments as suggestions, not complaints. I think that uc has a great deal of potential and look forward to seeing what that potential is. And I'm glad that you're here closely monitoring what's being said and suggested. Ron
#56433From: Jim MariasJul 9, 1989 4:44 PM
Hi Mike, Someone in the thread mentioned gibberish text in the browser programs editor. I can confirm the buglet. The problem is a conflict with the FastFonts program most people run in their startup-sequences. MaxiPlan (PlanIt) has the same problem. It causes some kind of alternate character set to be diplayed. Everything works, it just looks like garbage. This should get fixed right away as FastFonts is a standard thing to run under 1.3 for almost everyone One more thing, I tried calling the BBS number that was listed in the control room stack and I got a voice mail message inviting me to leave a message or a fax but no BBS. Am I calling to soon ? See ya, Jim Marias (75436,126)
#56469From: Betty Clay/SYSOPJul 9, 1989 8:26 PM
Mike, I agree with Ron on his objection to the name Browser. Peter da Silva wrote a program named Browser that is well known in the Amiga community, and I think it will be very confusing to have your reader called Browser as well. Betty
#56498From: John DraperJul 9, 1989 10:10 PM
Mike, As requested, here are some comments/suggestions re Ultracard. Hope you can take constructive criticism. 🙂 The program itself takes an inordinately long time to load. It's as if it partially loaded, and then started doing other things while loading the rest of it. When it first came up, it asked for volume 'ULTRA:'. Rather than do the assign right there, I tried to exit the program, with no luck. The close gadget on the File Requester is there, but inactive. The 'hand' pointer is very badly oriented, since it gets in the way of the menu items. I was constantly having to pull the pointer out of the way and off the menu in order to see what further choices I had. The 'search' string gadget in the Ultradex stack will not accept a C/R to enter the search string. Worse, it issues a number of requesters saying something about 'Key'PRESS', requiring a number of cancels to get rid of it. The 'RECENT' requester truncates path/filenames. The seocnd time the main file requester comes up, the directory selected the first time is not remembered. In the 'CONTROL ROOM' screen, if a menu is selected, the rendering of the menu permanently overlays the graphic (until next time you come into the control room). Hang in there… you'll get a lot of criticism on this one, but the basics are there… just need some work. Good luck. -larry