CompuServe Thread

#Amiga can't do biz

14 messages in this thread
#20131From: Matt SentellJul 29, 1989 12:02 AM
Steve, All I have to say on this subject is that I own a PC (286/20 Mhz) and an A500, and work on a Mac IIcx (doing high-end desktop publishing in an international ad agency) and I wouldn't have it any other way. I don't own a Mac because they're not very good game machines. But I wouldn't want to WORK on anything else. In fact the PC would be my second choice. The Amiga's OS is CLUMSY and SLOW. Questioning the Mac's lack of a CLI is like asking why you can't get a Mercedes Benz with a manual transmission. The lack of a line based OS on the Macintosh was proven irrelevant LONG ago. The bottom line is this: aside from audio-visual applications, the Amiga CANNOT hold its own in a professional business environment. The mere thought of trying to produce top-notch four color ad layouts and presentations on the Amiga scares the hell outta me. It's difficult enough on the Mac and all the heavy-hitters in the industry have been working their butts off on it for over 3 years now. Matt
#20132From: John Sobernheim(TCR)Jul 29, 1989 12:07 AM
Matt, I know plenty of people producing "top-notch four color ad layouts and presentations on the Amiga" — And if I do say so myself, it's all seems to be very easy. -John
#20152From: Matt SentellJul 29, 1989 6:49 PM
John, I've gotten a lot of response to that message so I'm going to try to keep each reply isolated to the message I'm responding to. All I can say is that the Amiga DTP software I have seen has been less than professional. But it's been a while since I've seen any so I don't know what the current state of the art is with Amiga DTP applications. For this reason, I really shouldn't have said the things I did, because I was just shooting my mouth off. I'd be interested to know if there's anything on the Amiga that can compare to Adobe Illustrator 88 though. Matt
#20136From: Darron C. KnutsonJul 29, 1989 7:38 AM
Matt, Have you tried doing color separations and ad presentations on an Amiga? I'd be interested in hearing your reactions to the process of creating such items on currently available Amiga software. Darron
#20153From: Matt SentellJul 29, 1989 6:50 PM
Darron, No, I haven't. Unfortunately I sort of shot my mouth off about the Amiga since I'm not up to date on the available software. I do know that producing process color separations on the Mac is still in its infancy, so I would find it very surprising if the Amiga could do it. Matt
#20164From: Betty Clay/SYSOPJul 29, 1989 9:46 PM
Matt, There are several programs for the AMiga that do color separations. Look at ProPage, just for one. Betty
#20137From: Thomas HoladayJul 29, 1989 7:46 AM
Try working on a 68020 or 68030 based Amiga with a Viking A2000 (1008×800) display and then tell me whether the Amiga OS is slow. You're comparing a 7 Mhz A500 (a $700 investment?) to two 20 MHz machines ( >> $700), which is going to lead to the wrong conclusions about the capability of the A2500 or GVP-30 A2000.
#20154From: Matt SentellJul 29, 1989 6:50 PM
Thomas, Trying to keep my replies isolated… I've seen the setup you describe and all I can say is that the Amiga's OS, whether it is slow or not, is far less elegant than the Mac's. I'm not averse to hacking around with batch files and the like…I've done it most of my life…but I'm not about to try and do it when I have deadlines to meet. The Mac makes so many boring and repetitive functions completely transparent to the user, and it took Apple and its developers a long time to reach this level of elegance. I've been there from the start, just as I have with the Amiga, and it just bothers me to see people make claims that Amiga is better than Mac when Commodore has done so little to make this a reality. Matt
#20140From: steven a. wartofskyJul 29, 1989 9:51 AM
Matt, you're outta my territory on this one. I've read plenty which seems to indicate that you can do more in video terms on an Amiga with 1/4 the hardware and cost it takes to do it on a Mac, but I don't have any experience with this so I just can't say. All I know is that I find the MAC's OS incredibly clumsy and slow (great for first-time users, but then you waste all that time wading through and waiting for all the icon software hard-wired into the OS to do something you could do in a snap with a half-line CLI command, once you've learned it), and the Amiga's wonderful because you can run a number of chores in the background (like disk copying, telecommunicating, etc.) and *still* have full availability of the computer for whatever else you want to use it for. Also, to continue to use the hackneyed auto analogies, comparing an A500 to a MACIIcx is like comparing a basic Honda Civic to a top-of-the-line Audi; compare Amiga's "Acura Legend" with Macintosh's "5000" for a more realistic comparison: an A2000 with a 68030 card, 4 megs of memory, an 80 meg 11ms access-time SCSI hard disk with a flickerfixer and multisync monitor will go *lots* further than Macintosh's best, and still at about a full half the cost. And there's lots of video software out there, all of which is a breeze to sync with a television's video signal due to the flexibility of handling interlace that comes built-in on the Amiga. But again, I'm talking theory here now; I don't need any of the stuff for what I do, I'm a text-based person — Thoreau living in a Long Island suburb of hardware, if you will. <grin> sw
#20156From: Matt SentellJul 29, 1989 6:51 PM
Steve, You really shouldn't say those things about the Mac's OS being slow for an experienced user unless you've used one with a recent system version. There are keyboard shortcuts for almost everything now, and I'm far more productive with it than with my Amiga or PC. Admittedly, my Amiga only has floppy drives, but I've seen fast hard drives on Amigas and they're still slower than a comparably equipped Mac. Matt
#20169From: steven a. wartofskyJul 29, 1989 10:34 PM
Well, I won't get into a Mac/Amiga dispute since I'm no expert on either; and it's true that MultiFinder improves the Mac's capabilities alot, though I think it significant that a friend of mine who's just purchased a Mac w/M-Finder hasn't made any use of it; the Amiga's multitasking is transparent enough that I was using it from day one, and the waits involved with other systems I use or have used now seem interminable since I've grown used to not having to wait. sw
#20146From: douglas.tothJul 29, 1989 2:11 PM
Matt- I'll bet you get a HUGE response to this message. Lots of people here have used all three computers, and feel the same way about the Ami that you do about your Mac. Anyway… –> "The Amiga's OS is CLUMSY and SLOW" Do your Mac and IBM have hard drives? Does your amiga? Ever think the difference in speed may be due to the difference in floppy vs hard drives? Have you ever tried to run a Mac from floppies? You will burn one of those silly clocks with the rotating hands into the surface of your monitor while waiting for ANYTHING to happen. –> "The lack of a line based OS on the Macintosh was proven irrelevant long ago" You have obviously been brainwashed by the Mac do-it-my-way-or-you-don'tneed-to-do-it-at-all philosophy. Ever try to print an encapsulated Postscript file on a Macintosh when you don't own the application which created it? Ever created a PS file on another computer and attempted to print it on your LaserWriter? On the amiga, it is simple: copy filename to PRT: I have NEVER found a way to do this on a Mac. Douglas T.
#20157From: Matt SentellJul 29, 1989 6:51 PM
Douglas, It is now almost impossible to run a Mac from floppies alone. This is not the case with the Amiga. When you COULD run a Mac from floppies, it was a good deal faster than the Amiga has ever been. But the fact is that I've seen Amigas with fast hard drives and they're still not acceptable to me due to the Amiga's DOS. My friend I've been working and playing with computers far too long to listen to someone tell me I've been brainwashed by the Mac community. I'm constantly re-evaluating the application of various computers as they relate to my needs and interests. I gave up on the Amiga in business long ago because it became obvious to me that Commodore is not serious enough about developing the Amiga's OS. As for your question, yes, I output pure Postscript files from the Mac all the time with the SendPS program. Admittedly it requires a separate application, but it's both widely available and quite compact. Let me ask you something…can an Amiga be linked directly to a Linotype processor? Matt
#20172From: steven a. wartofskyJul 29, 1989 11:09 PM
Matt, I'm in partial agreement with you in your comment on Commodore's foot-dragging when it comes to Amiga development, but perhaps you haven't been keeping up with the information on what's going to happen when OS version 1.4 comes out (whole new chipset for coprocessor chips as well as major OS enhancements in software)? Everything from massive flexibility in video modes to massive enhancements in scripting automation, as well as larger default CHIP RAM (available now as the "Fatter Agnus" chip) and lots of OS speedup. Were the hard drives on the Amiga you were referring to using the FastFileSystem? This makes a bit of difference in the HD speed in accessing files. But putting this from my own pragmatic point of view, I too haven't used my Amiga yet for any serious work simply because I can do it well and cheaply on a plain old XT Clone (or even an old CP/M machine, which is what I mostly use for wordprocessing! [put me in the Smithsonian with a tin cup]), and I haven't found any wordprocessing software yet for the Amiga that meets my needs as easily as Wordstar 5.5 does on an XT (special circumstance; have been able to upgrade to latest version of Wordstar for *alot* less than investing in WP for the Amiga, thus pushing me in certain directions). WP 4.17 for the Amiga's just fine, apparently, and if I ever suffer serious hardware damage I think I'd replace everything with an A2000 with FlickerFixer, MultiSync monitor, fast HD and WordPerfect, but for now (and unless lightning strikes my power cord), it ain't gonna happen. Sure wish it could, though! sw