#Amiga can't do biz
14 messages in this thread
Steve,
All I have to say on this subject is that I own a PC (286/20 Mhz) and an A500,
and work on a Mac IIcx (doing high-end desktop publishing in an international
ad agency) and I wouldn't have it any other way. I don't own a Mac because
they're not very good game machines. But I wouldn't want to WORK on anything
else. In fact the PC would be my second choice. The Amiga's OS is CLUMSY and
SLOW. Questioning the Mac's lack of a CLI is like asking why you can't get a
Mercedes Benz with a manual transmission. The lack of a line based OS on the
Macintosh was proven irrelevant LONG ago.
The bottom line is this: aside from audio-visual applications, the Amiga
CANNOT hold its own in a professional business environment. The mere thought
of trying to produce top-notch four color ad layouts and presentations on the
Amiga scares the hell outta me. It's difficult enough on the Mac and all the
heavy-hitters in the industry have been working their butts off on it for over
3 years now.
Matt
Matt,
I know plenty of people producing "top-notch four color ad layouts and
presentations on the Amiga" — And if I do say so myself, it's all seems to be
very easy.
-John
John,
I've gotten a lot of response to that message so I'm going to try to keep each
reply isolated to the message I'm responding to.
All I can say is that the Amiga DTP software I have seen has been less than
professional. But it's been a while since I've seen any so I don't know what
the current state of the art is with Amiga DTP applications. For this reason,
I really shouldn't have said the things I did, because I was just shooting my
mouth off. I'd be interested to know if there's anything on the Amiga that can
compare to Adobe Illustrator 88 though.
Matt
Matt,
Have you tried doing color separations and ad presentations on an Amiga?
I'd be interested in hearing your reactions to the process of creating such
items on currently available Amiga software.
Darron
Darron,
No, I haven't. Unfortunately I sort of shot my mouth off about the Amiga since
I'm not up to date on the available software. I do know that producing process
color separations on the Mac is still in its infancy, so I would find it very
surprising if the Amiga could do it.
Matt
Matt,
There are several programs for the AMiga that do color separations. Look at
ProPage, just for one.
Betty
Try working on a 68020 or 68030 based Amiga with a Viking A2000 (1008×800)
display and then tell me whether the Amiga OS is slow. You're comparing a 7
Mhz A500 (a $700 investment?) to two 20 MHz machines ( >> $700), which is going
to lead to the wrong conclusions about the capability of the A2500 or GVP-30
A2000.
Thomas,
Trying to keep my replies isolated…
I've seen the setup you describe and all I can say is that the Amiga's OS,
whether it is slow or not, is far less elegant than the Mac's. I'm not averse
to hacking around with batch files and the like…I've done it most of my
life…but I'm not about to try and do it when I have deadlines to meet. The
Mac makes so many boring and repetitive functions completely transparent to the
user, and it took Apple and its developers a long time to reach this level of
elegance. I've been there from the start, just as I have with the Amiga, and
it just bothers me to see people make claims that Amiga is better than Mac when
Commodore has done so little to make this a reality.
Matt
Matt, you're outta my territory on this one. I've read plenty which seems to
indicate that you can do more in video terms on an Amiga with 1/4 the hardware
and cost it takes to do it on a Mac, but I don't have any experience with this
so I just can't say. All I know is that I find the MAC's OS incredibly clumsy
and slow (great for first-time users, but then you waste all that time wading
through and waiting for all the icon software hard-wired into the OS to do
something you could do in a snap with a half-line CLI command, once you've
learned it), and the Amiga's wonderful because you can run a number of chores
in the background (like disk copying, telecommunicating, etc.) and *still* have
full availability of the computer for whatever else you want to use it for.
Also, to continue to use the hackneyed auto analogies, comparing an A500 to a
MACIIcx is like comparing a basic Honda Civic to a top-of-the-line Audi;
compare Amiga's "Acura Legend" with Macintosh's "5000" for a more realistic
comparison: an A2000 with a 68030 card, 4 megs of memory, an 80 meg 11ms
access-time SCSI hard disk with a flickerfixer and multisync monitor will go
*lots* further than Macintosh's best, and still at about a full half the cost.
And there's lots of video software out there, all of which is a breeze to sync
with a television's video signal due to the flexibility of handling interlace
that comes built-in on the Amiga.
But again, I'm talking theory here now; I don't need any of the stuff for
what I do, I'm a text-based person — Thoreau living in a Long Island suburb of
hardware, if you will. <grin>
sw
Steve,
You really shouldn't say those things about the Mac's OS being slow for an
experienced user unless you've used one with a recent system version. There
are keyboard shortcuts for almost everything now, and I'm far more productive
with it than with my Amiga or PC. Admittedly, my Amiga only has floppy drives,
but I've seen fast hard drives on Amigas and they're still slower than a
comparably equipped Mac.
Matt
Well, I won't get into a Mac/Amiga dispute since I'm no expert on either; and
it's true that MultiFinder improves the Mac's capabilities alot, though I think
it significant that a friend of mine who's just purchased a Mac w/M-Finder
hasn't made any use of it; the Amiga's multitasking is transparent enough that
I was using it from day one, and the waits involved with other systems I use or
have used now seem interminable since I've grown used to not having to wait.
sw
Matt-
I'll bet you get a HUGE response to this message. Lots of people here have
used all three computers, and feel the same way about the Ami that you do about
your Mac. Anyway…
–> "The Amiga's OS is CLUMSY and SLOW"
Do your Mac and IBM have hard drives? Does your amiga? Ever think the
difference in speed may be due to the difference in floppy vs hard drives? Have
you ever tried to run a Mac from floppies? You will burn one of those silly
clocks with the rotating hands into the surface of your monitor while waiting
for ANYTHING to happen.
–> "The lack of a line based OS on the Macintosh was proven irrelevant
long ago"
You have obviously been brainwashed by the Mac
do-it-my-way-or-you-don'tneed-to-do-it-at-all philosophy. Ever try to print an
encapsulated Postscript file on a Macintosh when you don't own the application
which created it? Ever created a PS file on another computer and attempted to
print it on your LaserWriter? On the amiga, it is simple: copy filename to
PRT:
I have NEVER found a way to do this on a Mac.
Douglas T.
Douglas,
It is now almost impossible to run a Mac from floppies alone. This is not the
case with the Amiga. When you COULD run a Mac from floppies, it was a good
deal faster than the Amiga has ever been. But the fact is that I've seen
Amigas with fast hard drives and they're still not acceptable to me due to the
Amiga's DOS.
My friend I've been working and playing with computers far too long to listen
to someone tell me I've been brainwashed by the Mac community. I'm constantly
re-evaluating the application of various computers as they relate to my needs
and interests. I gave up on the Amiga in business long ago because it became
obvious to me that Commodore is not serious enough about developing the Amiga's
OS.
As for your question, yes, I output pure Postscript files from the Mac all the
time with the SendPS program. Admittedly it requires a separate application,
but it's both widely available and quite compact. Let me ask you
something…can an Amiga be linked directly to a Linotype processor?
Matt
Matt, I'm in partial agreement with you in your comment on Commodore's
foot-dragging when it comes to Amiga development, but perhaps you haven't been
keeping up with the information on what's going to happen when OS version 1.4
comes out (whole new chipset for coprocessor chips as well as major OS
enhancements in software)? Everything from massive flexibility in video modes
to massive enhancements in scripting automation, as well as larger default CHIP
RAM (available now as the "Fatter Agnus" chip) and lots of OS speedup.
Were the hard drives on the Amiga you were referring to using the
FastFileSystem? This makes a bit of difference in the HD speed in accessing
files.
But putting this from my own pragmatic point of view, I too haven't used my
Amiga yet for any serious work simply because I can do it well and cheaply on a
plain old XT Clone (or even an old CP/M machine, which is what I mostly use for
wordprocessing! [put me in the Smithsonian with a tin cup]), and I haven't
found any wordprocessing software yet for the Amiga that meets my needs as
easily as Wordstar 5.5 does on an XT (special circumstance; have been able to
upgrade to latest version of Wordstar for *alot* less than investing in WP for
the Amiga, thus pushing me in certain directions). WP 4.17 for the Amiga's just
fine, apparently, and if I ever suffer serious hardware damage I think I'd
replace everything with an A2000 with FlickerFixer, MultiSync monitor, fast HD
and WordPerfect, but for now (and unless lightning strikes my power cord), it
ain't gonna happen. Sure wish it could, though!
sw