Power Up Extended!
24 messages in this thread
I'm not sure why the Power Up program would delay 2.0. I could see that it
might delay the release of the Tower. As far as I know, 2.0 is done just
waiting for packaging.
John (in beautiful downtown Walla Walla) – via Whap!
John,
(Putting on marketdroid hat) 2.0 plays to largely positive reviews. People
want it. Let the "I gotta have its" buy a 3000 to get it. This does the
following: 1) increases installed base of Amigas 2) increases installed
base of Unix capable Amigas 3) helps sales through the summer months. When
the power-up begins to die down, we call of the program and need something
else to generate revenue to pay the troops and more importantly to pay the
stockholders! So what do we have in the pipe thats saleable in large
enough volumes to keep fall/winter revenues up? Ados2.0, ECS and the tower!
SO we hold them off an plan to drop them in when 3000 sales begin to sag.
wmc
It also causes developers to ignore it, as it is the OS in the minority –
supporting 2.0 is a high-effort, low return job, when only 3000's have it.
While 2.0 exists in only 3000's, it'll get short shrift (and rightly so).
And 3000 users will know this very quickly after they get their units.
Finally, since 3000's still come with the ability to "get back" to 1.3,
there is no feeling of having "left the 3000 owner out" on the part of the
developer; again we have a situation where what may literally be the best
thing to happen to the Amiga (DOS 2.x) has no effect because CBM is
pursuing a policy of self-destructive marketing/release.
So what else is new?
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
But that same strategy allows 3rd party guys like DKB, Microway and ICD to
make money giving 2.0/ECS capability to "the rest of us" in the area of
chip ram and flickerless video – so at least someone is making money! :^}
wmc
I want Amiga developers to make $$$. If they don't the Amiga will die, sure
as shooting.
But I don't think that the issues here in any way make it that CBM should
be stupid with 2.x;
DKB's devices (the rom switcher and the 2 meg agnus) in no way make a
benefit by 2.x's non release. The rom switcher will be useful for a long
time – many items will still require 1.3; and that provides it, 2.x does
not. The 2 meg agnus isn't anything you're going to get with the 2.x
upgrade, no matter if you buy the chips or not. Again, the Agnus board
helps anyone who installs it – obviously, you're not gogin to install it in
a 3000, but you wouldn't now, either.
The FFV is a *major* advance over the crippled functionality you get with
the new chips from CBM. Ok, you do get "productiviy mode", something few
(if any) applications would want to use (too much chip ram contention, IE
slow – VERY slow). The FFV provides fully deinterlaced output in ALL Amiga
video modes – no flicker in any interlace mode. Again, the 2.x upgrade in
no way makes this obsolete or less useful. If anything, a user who tries
"prodcutivity mode" is likely to suddenly discover a yen for the FFV or
it's equivalant.
In my opinion, which admittedly is biased by owne\ing a microway FF, the
new capabilities embodied in the new denise are just short of useless. 2.x,
the operating system, is the best thing since sliced bread – or it would
be, if we could use it. I think anyone who buys the chips is wasting money,
unless they have specific needs for the new genlocking modes. The
deinterlaced output rots.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
Best thing since sliced bread would be device independent graphics. The
amiga needs to regain it's lead it had in 1985 in graphics. The Apple IBM
agreement may rock the boat. Dec may want to get back at Apple buy signing
a similar agreement with guess who. (speculation on my part:)). BTW,
Motorola wins in the agreement.
I doubt the Apple-IBM thing will bother us either way. People who are
potential Mac/IBM customers are rarely potential Amiga customers. All that
will do is shuffle the Mac and IBM customers a bit, I think.
DIG would be great. Don't hold your breath.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
Ben, re your comments on the A3000 deinterlacer vs the FlickerFixer: Do
you know if the FlickerFixer works in the A3000 video slot?
Why? Someone in AmigaVendor has an A3000, and the FireCracker24. When
running in overlay mode, the deinterlaced display on his multisync was all
goofed up. Would he be able to put the FlickerFixer (with its genlock fix)
in the video slot of the A3000 and get his deinterlaced output that way? I
know its more $$$, but if its a critical think to him, then at least its a
solution?
–jp–seattle–
No – I don't know. We no longer have a 3000 here; waiting for the 3000t.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
Ben,
I have the DKB 2 meg Agnes board and tried to get a FFV in there too.
However I had one capacitor that blocked it. I have since had occasion to
get in there and put a new cap in that spot and left enough lead to lay it
part way over. I'd like to get a FFV too, but until I hear of someone
actually getting it and MegaChip 2000 in the box at the same time, I will
wait. Meanwhile, since the Tower is not out and I don't have dinterlaced
video, if the ECS/2.0 gives me that capability w/o using the video slot, I
will probably avail myself of it and be none the wiser for never having
used FFV.
wmc
BUt, Wayne – ECS does NOT do that. You have only one deinterlaced mode –
and there is no promise that your software (that you want to be
de-interlaced) can run in that mode.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
Ben,
So I guess what you are saying is that the deinterlace hardware solutions
like FFV are superior to ECS.
BTW, has anyone gotten a FFV and a Megachip Hi-Rise in the same A2000?
wmc
Superior in usability – the FFV, Flicker-Fixer, and the CBM card (I don't
know th model #) all provide something you can use all the time. The new
chips for the 2000 and 500 don't. The 2 meg agnus does, but that's not part
of the 2.x upgrade – Although DKB s/w will be happy to "make it so", as
Picard says from time to time. :^)
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
Ben,
I've got the Megachip – love it. I can do all sorts of display intensive
stuff all at once without crashing or running outof chip now. Now I just
need something to save the peepers….
wmc
I too would like to get the FFV. From the comparison in the latest Amiga
World FFV seems to be about the best of the 3 deinterlacers when you
consider it is made with the ECS in mind. However, MegaChip is only
product that will give you 2 meg of chip RAM and it looks like it conflicts
with FFV. No one from either company is coming right out and saying
whether there is a room on the mother board for both boards (even with a
little creative placement) so I take their silence to mean they WON'T work
together. It's a shame. You'd think one company or the other would've
come uup with a fix of some sort. (FFV is mighty big. The AW review said
it will also interfere with Midget Racer.)
Leslie, I had both boards at one time, but couldn't seat the FFV because of
a conflict with a capacitor on my 4.1 motherboard. Also the people I
ordered from sent the standard MegaChip instead of the Hi-Rise model (which
will work with the DEBized FlickerFixer). If you believe the hieght
figures that ICD gives on the phone, and you don't have a 4.1 mother board
(I don't know which MBs have that capacitor mounted elsehwere) they should
fit physically.
The two companies had talked about trying to get together and try the two
products together at a show last spring, but the meeting didn't take place
due to conflicting schedules. So, the companies are willing to work
together, its just not a real high priority for them.
BTW, when ordering a Megachip you need to specify motherboard revision as
they have two versions.
wmc
I wasn't aware there was a "Hi-Rise" model of MegAChip. I assume that FFV
would be installed first. I have no idea which revision mother board I
have. I suppose I'll have to pull the cover off and look around. Thanks
for the info and advice but I'm still wondering if my dealer could shoehorn
both products on one motherboard.
Leslie,
The high-rise was made to accomodate the Microway DEB for the Flicker
Fixer. If the FFV uses the same or less hieght it will fit under the
Megachip as their appeared to be no lateral interference.
Your MB rev is on the board right about directly behind where the A2000
logo on the case is. However, If you take it to a dealer to install you
may want to ask hin to note down the rev for you. If your dealer is
cooperative, he might try to install the two products and make the sale
dependend on them working together. But you will need the high-rise
version of the Megachip, and if you have a 4.1 MB you'll need the version
with the extra capacitor on it to filter clock noise that the Obese One
doesn't like.
wmc
Wayne, I was just about to go and order a MegaChip (2meg Chip ram) and the
Obese Agnus…. your message says if you have a rev 4.1 motherboard then a
special version is needed? My equiptment is the FlickerFixer and the 4.1
motherboard. Anything special I should know about? Thanks in advance.
–jp–seattle–
While we're on the subject…can the MegaChip fit into the 2000 board with
Flicker Free Video ? Who goes on top of who? Thanx in advance.
Wayne,
Thanks for the info on the "high rise" MegAChip. I suppose it is still
a toss up as to whether it will actually work with the FFV but it sounds
more likely. I suppose it clears the way for the Miget Racer. I hear
MicroBotics (HardFrame, 8-UP!, Starboard, etc.) are coming out with an
accelerator of their own which will plug into the 68000 socket. Price
without the math chip is in the $350 range. There is an ad for it in tthe
Briwall ad in Amiga World but I don't believe the product is actually for
sale yet.
Ben:
What compatibility is there (if any) between the FFV (Flicker Free Video)
deinterlacer and HAME +?
?|^] Ray Lewis
Only that, as far as we know, they don't interfere with each other.
Since the FFV is a 12 bit device, it can't de-interlace HAM-E output; and
since the HAM-E must take it's input at a very specific rate, it can't take
the 12 bit output from the FFV, even it it were easily available with a
clock, which it isn't.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S