#UPS Recommendations
42 messages in this thread
This has come up quite recently but having not seen many replies (perhaps
they went private) but this morning's ground moving activities in
California has accelerated my desires to have one. Can anyone recommend a
good UPS? I prefer a non-standby UPS. Any recommendations on a rating
suitable for keeping a 3000 and monitor up in action for at least 10
minutes?
Thanks a bunch. It's not so much that I'm afraid of total loss of power
but when the power dies for split seconds…
First time one could actually surf in a pool! 🙂
Dan McCoy – via Whap! and saving money doing it too!
Dan,
So how was the "surf" in you pool? No cracks here, just curious B^) A
buddy called me from Marina del Rey and told me he was on the EQ ride. I
didn't know about the shaking since I hadn't turned on the TV yet. It was
around 9AM when he called and during our conversation I heard a squealing
tone in the background and then the line went dead. I thought, Oh gawd, CA
just got nuked! He called back, apparently some overloaded phone system
blinked for a sec. Well, maybe this will just release some pressure, but
then again….better get some large spring mounted platforms for your
Amiga.
Chris
The shaking was rather fun. Walking to the hallway was like walking on
moving platforms in a fun house. I'm south of both quakes and no damage I
can notice around here (though the AC line seems flaky lately). Seeing the
backyard flooded with pool water was a site. What is sort of unnerving is
the fact that these two quakes' faults form a triangle right to CA's major
fault that hasn't released great pressure in a while.
Regardless, it's part of living in California just as other natural events
happen elsewhere. I just mind it when they disrupt my Amiga sessions! 🙂
Dan McCoy – via Whap! and saving money doing it too!
Nothing worse than having an earthquake disrupt a ray trace! It's the pits!
B^)
Chris
It's the pits? What a nasty crack. I think it's all your fault, too. You
need a good shaking – in fact, you should quake in your boots at the
thought of such a tremulous pun.
:^)))
–Ben
Ben, Ha Ha! I never thought I was making "…such a tremulous pun…" when
I said "It's the pits!". But now that I re-read it I can see that it could
crack someone up who has been shaken not stirred just recently.
B^)))
Chris
A year or so ago PC Magazine did an UPS issue. Best buy was a Smart UPS
400 which sits between your monitor and system unit. I know they were
reviewing for IBM but electrons are (more or less) electrons. Around $300
I think. The review is useful for its logic even if you do not agree with
final conclusions.
Related but different… Do you realize that (according to several
articles) MOV based surge protectors are only good for about 6 months.
Microspikes that don't trigger them reduce them to uselessness quite
quickly.
Basically, if you read the literature, your computer cannot survive the
local environment for more than a few months. That last game of lemmings
you played was a figment of your imagination. Actually, the screen never
even lit up.
—–Paul—-
Thanks for the info. The info about MOV based strips was news. I do have
a Tripp-Lite 1200W line conditioner prior to the computer. It has kicked
in now and then over the past four years and for a while, I thought it was
giving up the ghost. Turns out that ever since our last earthquake, the AC
line house-wide has been screwy. Line conditioners don't do squat for
total AC loss though. 🙂
Let your imagination run wild! 🙂
Dan McCoy – via Whap! and saving money doing it too!
The best article I saw on the faults of surge protection was in a MAC
magazine of about a year ago. Basically (and oversimplified to the point
that I think I understand it) the little microspikes fry the tiny junction
point in the MOV that does the switching. Doesn't keep it from working,
just slows it down by a few silly microsecond. You need a well equipped
laboratory to detect the difference. Unfortunately your motherboard knows
the difference in a real lightning spike. There are Surgers that work on
different principles but cost better than $100.
The article also went into gory detail about how, even when your surge
protector works right, it will cause nasties to run back up the ground line
into your modem and into the motherboard. Not quite as scary as AIDS but
more likely.
Sleep well.
—–Paul—-
Thanks for the info. Not sure what kind of protection the TrippLite 1200W
line condition has but for the many years I've used it, about the only
thing I notice anomalies are during total power failures. 🙂 Although I
don't have a o'scope to hook up to the AC line, the system has been happy
and I hear the line conditioner kick in often lately (ever since the
quakes).
Sleep well? 🙂
Thanks again.
Dan McCoy – via Whap! and saving money doing it too!
Asbestos I understand it, your UPS will protect you well against brownouts,
high voltages (a friend of mine wondered why his lightbulbs never lasted.
turned out his house was getting >124 volts. power company said it was a
long line and those at the end were barely getting 110.). Spikes may still
hazard you, but not as much as the totally unprotected. Shucks, if you
have years of experience, it's time to replace your computer anyhow.
&) ——Paul—–
Dan,
Somewhere on your 3000 (or its power supply – I wish _I_ had such a
beastie) there should be an indication of its power consumption (either
watts or VA). Add to this the watts or VA rating of all the other equipment
you want to have supported by your UPS. This will give you the rating you
need. Actually, adding the VA totals together will give an exaggerated
estimate, but don't worry about it. A VA value is equal to or greater than
the actual power consumption (watts).
With all the thunderstorms we've been having here lately, I'm tempted to
buy and UPS myself.
Regards,
Shraddhan – via Whap! from Hertfordshire in the UK
Shraddhan;
While some UPS's may have a "wattage" rating, all UPS's are limited based
upon VA. Most UPS makers recommend adding the VA rating of all connected
devices and then multiplying by a factor to ensure excess capacity.
-bill
Hi Bill!
Whatcha been doing these days? Haven't seen you in the forums much.
Speaking about UPSes, I believe the one someone wanted info on was the
type that are in use all the time, not just on standby waiting for low
power or a loss of power. You know what I mean? The type that are inverting
the battery power to an AC sine wave voltage and powering the computer &
peripherals besides charging its battery.
Chris
Don't be a stranger.
Hey Chris;
I have noted that you are around a bit more lately (of course maybe I'm
around a bit more to notice). Been really busy. Will have to teach some
classes in Fla. later this month and do not have the course materials
finished yet so will be working almost continously for the next few
weeks.
Had a lightning hit last week. Took out three phones, my stereo and maybe
a toaster oven (not certain that the toaster oven was a lightning induced
failure). To my shock and amazement the modems that were between the
phones and phone line (lost one phone line completely) survived. So did
the operating computers!
Well back to work — just got a help call from the office.
-bill
bill,
I hate it when lightning strikes! I get nervous every time it begins
to storm. Sorry to hear that you lost so much electronics. Lucky that the
modems didn't fry. The last time I got stung it took the modem and
answering machine, and the submersible well pump!
I should be around here a lot more from now on, I really missed my daily
(hourly?) CIS fix.
Chris
Tanx. From what I would like to keep up, 400VA should do the trick. Outta
be fun computing while the lights are out. If nothing else, I'd still have
a clock to look at and reference when resetting all the blinking 12:00
clocks! 🙂
Thunderstorms are another matter. I don't mind total power distruption but
DO mind lightning strikes!
Dan McCoy – via Whap! and saving money doing it too!
Dan,
Out of curiosity, could a UPS inform the computer that external power had
gone off, and tell it to shut down gracefully? We've been having a lot of
thunderstorms around here lately, and they make me _very_ nervous if I'm
using the computer.
400VA seems about right to me.
Regards,
Shraddhan – via Whap! from Hertfordshire in the UK
UPSes that are intended for LAN use usually have a circuit to notify the
LAN to shutdown gracefully. Of course the computer has to be running some
kind of background process to see and react to the signal.
—–Paul—-
Paul,
So the computer runs a background process looking for a signal from the
UPS. Hmmm, so if I had more ports on my computer… No problem.
Regards,
Shraddhan – via Whap! from Hertfordshire in the UK
Yeah. Don't remember any special port. I think it comes in the serial
port. May be wrong though. I'm not running a LAN and it seemed somewhat
esoteric.
=====Paul=====
Some UPS systems have a serial interface that you could plug into the
computer. You could write a program (or ARexx script) that keep checking
the port now and then to check the status and act accordingly. Of course,
some programs you just can't stop by telling it to without being there…
Thunderstorms are a different beast. Since I don't live in an area that
gets hit by thunderstorms that often, I'm not versed on how well such
systems would protect you (though I am interested). The building where my
mom works got struck by lightning a few months back and toasted a board or
three even with protection. Egads!
I DO know that the line conditioner I've used for almost four years has
saved my butt several times… 🙂
Dan McCoy – via Whap! and saving money doing it too!
Dan,
In most cases, that "serial interface" is no more than a single RS-232
level line which the manufacturer suggests you connect to the "carrier
detect" line of a serial interface somewhere – wasting all it's other
lines, just incidentally – the system software watches for an active
carrier detect indication from the serial port and if it sees that, it does
(whatever) because it knows power to the input of the UPS is now gone or
below spec (usually below 103 vac or above 130 – or gone, of course).
A small bit of custom s/w would have to be written to deal with this
methinks. We may do it; we'll be heavily UPS'd before too long, and the
units we've chosen will have that serial capability.
The only reason we might NOT do it is because I've not yet been able to
think of anything to do with the information that wouldn't involve hacking
the OS one way or another.
Protection from thunderstorms is one of those knotty questions. If you get
a direct lightning strike, by which I mean on YOUR power line, past the
power company's xformer, odds are good that all your "protective" devices
may have to be extracted from the walls with crowbars after they hit them
at near supersonic speeds – in pieces. :^) Surges from strikes further down
the line can be taken care of to some degree by MOV's and other
semiconductor arcanae, which are used in power strips and (almost always)
in UPS units. Certainly in good UPS units.
It is well to remember that lightning can enter a computer system via the
modem's telephone line, inductively through cables lying about on your
floor (assuming a VERY near strike, like outside the wall where the
computer is), through computer controlled equipment like musical MIDI gear,
HAM radios, video gear->television antennas/cable, the power line, weather
stations like my heath ID5001, and so on.
It's sort of like sex. The best protection – don't plug it in. (Running
away).
–Ben
Thanks Ben. If this "serial interface" is nothing more than a RS-232 level
line, one could reduce the voltage down to TTL level and plug it into the
joystick port, eh? GPI trigger type deal. Although I'm not that concerned
about a serial interface because, like you said, having the ability to
force all tasks to stop would require a OS hack of some sort. I just want
one that beeps wildly at me so I can do the turning off. 🙂
Could have used a UPS last night and most of today. Ever since the
earthquakes (though it may be a coincidence) we had around here last week,
something fishy was going on with the house's AC line. Last night, just
when you need the air conditioning the most, we lost power to most of the
house. Turns out that the 2 awg wire going from the 100 amp circuit
breaker to a terminal for the power meter that supplied the power to these
newly dead circuits decided to take a smoke. Mostly charred remains of the
terminal block, as it had broken free from the power meter connection.
It took the air conditioner to finally break it. The lights and the line
conditioner before my computer were having fun during the "am here-am not!"
split second phases until it finally gave way! All better now! 🙂
Thanks for the info.
Dan McCoy – via Whap! and saving money doing it too!
You're welcome. Certainly you could translate the RS232 level to TTL (or
anything else, like a contact closure) without too much effort, if you're
moderately familiar with electronics.
btw – most of these UPS's do beep rather annoyingly. :^)
–Ben
Dan:
I don't think you'll really need a utility to beep at you. With most of
the UPSes that I've seen, and specially the one here on the Amiga, and the
one on the PC's at the office have this really loud, really obnoxiously
high pitches beep that will wake the dead so they can powerdown the
machine!
-Mike Schiller
In sunny Fort Lauderdale
Mike,
Beeping machines and UPS'es presume that there is someone there to
hear it. Autoshutdown software hooked to the UPS is far more reliable
<grin>.
Don
Don:
I realise that, but the person mentioned that all they'd want to do was
write a program (or script) that would beep when the UPS was active (a
power failure). In that case, it really wouldn't be needed. As for auto
shutdown software, yes I agree with you, now if there was only such an
animal for the Amiga!
-Mike Schiller
In sunny Fort Lauderdale
Well, If the programs running supported ARexx, wouldn't it be possible to
send all open ARexx ports a "Quit" message?
Brian
– via Whap!
Yeah, but the hourly wage for a dead tech would be affordable.
—-Paul—-
Well, if you're dealing with the APC "Back-UPS," they claim that their "On
Battery" amd "Low Battery" indications are nothing more than switch
closures. If so — and I'll find out when I get mine in — I think wiring
something into the second joystick port will be childs play. If not….
Where did I put those optoisolators?
Brian
– via Whap!
Shraddhan,
There's a UPS specifially for Windows! When the power goes, you can open a
window and see a graph that shows when the power drop occured. A most
unusual product.
Malcolm
Yes, sometimes it seems that those IBMers have everything…
I would imagine that a more useful facility would be the ability to
maintain an automatic log of power ups and downs.
Regards,
Shraddhan – via Whap! from Hertfordshire in the UK
Also my thought.
–Ben
APC Smart-UPS…. We have 2 on our PC LAN at work. It — in conjunction
with the server-resident software, does that and monitors line sage,
performs regular UPS tests, etc., etc. It talks using a standard serial
connection, and the company charges a fairly low price for the
documentation so that you can make your computer speak the UPS's
"Language."
Brian
– via Whap!
Brian,
Thanks for the info.
>> the company charges a fairly low price for the documentation…
I'm rather surprised that they charge at all!
Regards,
Shraddhan – via Whap! from Hertfordshire in the UK
I'll bet _they_ licenced the controller's language from someone else, and
because of this, decided to charge others for the docs too. Also, let's
remember that, until recently, UPS's have been primarily the domain of
corporate customers who could easily deal with paying for the programming
docs.
since all of their UPS's Seem to use "contact closure" as another means for
informing the host (client?) computer that power has died — and this _is_
in the user manual (or so I'm told) — most users can use this information
and not deal with the Smart-UPS's more oddball features.
Brian
Brian,
Sounds to me like a way of getting more money out of the customer. Also, I
suppose many customers wold think more highly of a product if it was "well
supported" – i.e. if you have to pay for the information you think you
might need to use it.
I really fail to see what kind of language would be needed to transfer one
or two bits of information – i.e. power on/off, battery OK/low – when a
couple of contact closures would do.
Regards,
Shraddhan – via Whap! from Hertfordshire in the UK
APC charges, I think, $50 for the documentation as to what comes out of the
serial port of their UPSs.
BEST, another UPS manufacturer, will send you the information about their
serial port in the form of a "Tech Note" for free.
Which unit do you think I'll buy?
With the information from Best, it should be possible to draw some pretty
nifty charts and diagrams using the UPS data just like on those PC-Klones.
On a related note, Don't you just HATE explaining to people that you have
no intention of using their product with a "PC Compatible" and that is why
you can't run their nifty canned program and that is why you need detailed
technical information? (sigh!)
-J
Shraddhan,
I believe that it does do the logs for you so you can show your
grandchildren the history of your electric company. 🙂 And it'll also shut
down Windows for you before dropping out entirely.
Malcolm
Dan,
I'd have to recommend the American Power Conversion Back-UPS 450AT. I'm
using the here for my accelerated 2000, monitor, and modem. It's held up
for at least 25 minutes on two occasions so far.
I wish these aftershocks would stop!
Brian Bartlett