#OS/2 issues
26 messages in this thread
The Phar Lap DOS Extender needs to be patched/upgraded in order for 3DS2
to be capable of running under OS/2 2.1
Phar Lap DOS Extender versions 4.0 and later will run with OS/2 2.1
What's involved, in terms of time, money, code, etc…?
I
Actually, if you tried to patch 3DSr2's version of Phar Lap, you'd totally
break the ADI interface, and you'd seriously destabilize the program. The best
thing to do is wait for R3… which will run fine under OS/2, as it uses the
Phar Lap 5.x extender.
– G
Dear Yost Group Entity:
PMJI,I'm out of my league discussing this Phar Lap extender business, ADI
interfaces, etc, but since you're on the topic, maybe you could help clear
something for me. Basically, I am trying to figure out what kind of memory 3D
Studio _really_ likes. Most people outside this forum get glassy eyed when I
start talking VCPI compliance and Phar Lap. The only types of memory I think I
have a fairly clear idea of are Conventional, High Memory, High Memory Area,
and Extended Memory. Expanded EMS (LIM and LIM 4) is kind of in between for
me. Basically, I get the idea it is an old way of doing the same thing as
extended memory.
1. If I read the Installation and Performance guide properly, it sounds like
the ideal is a pure system with lots of RAM and no memory manager (i.e. No
emm386, 386Max, or Qemm). How does Himem.sys fit in here? (seems to work OK on
my system, but there's always room for more speed). I also use Smartdrv.
2. If a memory manager must be used, it must be 1. VCPI compliant (all three
mentioned above are) and, 2. Maximal memory must be allocated to Expanded
memory. Since several closely related graphics programs (CorelDraw,
PhotoStyler) are Windows based, AND Windows _cannot_ use Expanded memory, this
led either to great compromises or Multiple boot configurations (a real
pain–I'm presently trying to configure Coned.Exe to do multiple boots). For a
while I had 386Max configured for 30M expanded memory, but that made Windows
crawl and sometimes not even run.
Is there something that I am missing here? I.e., is there a better solution?
I have presently resigned myself to at least two, and maybe three boot
configurations. Meanwhile, I have kept as TSR's etc, to a minimum, and omitted
any memory aids except as noted above, but really, it would be nice to have the
conventional memory that a memory manager can provide for some of my DOS
programs, even though 3D Studio doesn't need it. If it compromises 3D Studio,
I'll pass however.
I assume that OS/2 and Release 3 will make all this a moot point, but I am not
looking forward to learning a new operating system (OS/2), even if it is the
one that will be leading the world if marketing doesn't prove its undoing.
Windows is horrible enough! <g>
Lydell
Lydell:
We have been running a similar configuration for a while, this is what we
found out:
QEMM has solved all our memory management problems. We use only one
configuration on all machines, running Windows, ACAD, Ani Pro, 3DS, etc.
Remember to set EMB=(amount of memory you have) – it defaults to 12 megs or
so, you want it to be running Windows.
We then load things like network drivers, etc. high to squeeze as much base
memory as possible out of the systems.
Do not use smartdrv or anything similar when running 3DS, it is much better
to let the program use all the memory available.
Hope this helps!
Greg Pyros
Greg:
It has been my experience that if you >know< you are going to page to disk, 3DS
does much better WITH a disk cache… I have a 15ms hard disk and I still
notice a considerable difference when I render those high res film images.
C#
Greg,
>>QEMM has solved all our memory management problems<<
Good to hear. I almost bought it this weekend, but since I already had 386Max,
and it seems like every program I add to my system brings it to its knees for a
few days while everybody gets to know each other, I was trying to solve things
some other way than throwing another program at it. However, QEMM has come so
highly recommended I have no other choice now.
Thanks for the info, and I may be coming back for more <g>.
By the way, thanks for reminding me why I had taken Smartdrv out of my system.
I think there was a thread a while back to this effect and I took it out. Only
recently did I put it back in so Windows would work. My understanding is that
3D Studio has its own cache routine, but what about other programs? Do you use
a third party cache?
Lydell
Lydell:
You basically have two options here – run 3D Studio for all it's worth, or
run other programs! If you need to run other programs, you can just run
smartdrv from the command line for caching if you feel that the system is
much slower.
I never checked, does anyone know if you can disable smartdrv and remove it
from memory to get the memory back for 3DS?
Greg (is there life outside 3DS?) Pyros
Greg,
Nope – you can disable smartdrv but you can't recover the memory without
rebooting. Too bad.
Dave Mennenoh
Not quite. There is an API in SmartDrive that allows the calling app (usually
Windows) to reclaim memory. That's the second number you give to Smartdrive.
The first is the amount of memory to use when _not_ in Windows. The second is
the amount when running under Windows. If the second number is ommited, it
defaults to 256k. I have the API somewhere but I'm sure it's in the MS forum. I
tested around and found that no matter what situation, I run faster with "some"
cache. No cache at all rendered a slower machine no matter what app used. With
a ton of memory available, I could not find any good reason _not_ to use disk
cache.
I just use PC-Kwik. It is VCPI compatable, and has a "lend-to-apps" section in
its configuration file. ACAD.EXE is in there by default, but just add ANI.EXE
and 3DS.EXE and POOF! it'll give up its memory dynamically to the application!
Dave
Dave:
>> PC-Kwik
Pretty slick! Thanks for the tip!
Greg
Also, Super PC-Kwik 5.10 (the latest version) allows for CD-ROM caching (as
well as its standard support for Bernoulli/removable cartridge drives). All
the drives (CD-ROM included) share the overall cache pool.
Dave
Dave:
>> Super PC-Kwik 5.10 – CD-Rom, Bernoulli, Removable Cartridge drives
Does it slice bread and make your coffee, too? <g> Seems almost too good
to be true!
But now the big question – what about network drives?
Greg Pyros
PCKwik supports a maximum of 8 drives, and yes, apparently works with Novell
and Lantastic networks (these two are mentioned by name — and I say apparently
because a network is kind of my Holy Grail — although, to mix metaphors, it
will probably [if and when we get one] end up being a two edged sword, causing
me as many problems as it solves [my users can barely deal with their local
machines]).
Whew! What a sentence. <g> It also (we were talking about PCKwik, remember?)
supports DPMI, and SCSI bus-mastering devices. Oh, and there is a 90-day
money-back guarantee!
Dave
David R.,
PMJI… I tried using the Super PC-Kwik Power Pak with QEMM on my demo system
and really wasn't sure I was gaining anything…I do understand that there is a
WinMaster Version available which I'm reluctant to try as my system seems to
get increasingly fragile the more I try to "improve" it with these type of
software solutions. The promotional literature says the Power Pak Cache is
_twice as fast_ as SMARTDrive.
Is this what you've experienced?
If you really are seeing this type of improvement I'd like to know about it as
well as see your Autoexec.bat and Config.sys setups.
I beleive the version I tried was the V3.0 Power Pak upgrade.
I may have set up the system improperly the first time I tried it but I have a
low tolerence to fiddling with systems that already work.<g> Usually if its
"New" Software or an UpGrade like QEMM 7.0 (I know there's a patch but I'm
still waiting on that one.) and I have more than one conflict or problem
setting up the software, especially if it screws up 3D Studio or Animator Pro.
I immeadiatly Grab my Tape Backup and put things "Back". After all, this
system is my main Bread and Butter and I can not afford to screw around with it
for two or three days just to get an upgrade to work.
Thats why I'm glad there's CompuServe…. Those of us that HAVE to add that
Upgrade or New Software for a Project or to solve another problem can Help
those of us who can't take the time until it becomes a "Critical Mass"
situation.
Thanks David… I appreciate anything you may have to share about the Power Pak
setup.
James
>>I do understand that there is a WinMaster Version available which I'm
>>reluctant to try…
The disk cache portion of WinMaster would not differ. WinMaster is basically
(as I understand it) a ProgMan replacement (like Norton DeskTop for Win, etc).
>>The promotional literature says the Power Pak Cache is_twice as fast_ as
>>SMARTDrive. Is this what you've experienced?
I really don't know, I haven't used SMARTDrive in a long time. I'll try and
run some tests here in a day or two. I did run a couple quick tests with
PCKwik's included Benchmark program with no cache, a normal 2MB cache (meaning
no write-caching or sorting) and with write sorting and a 2.5 second write
delay. The total disk activity time decreased by 69% using the normal cache vs
no cache, and by about 90% using the write-delay cache vs no cache. (This was
writing and reading a 1 MB test file, with 2 passes each for 2048 records of
512 byes and 256 records of 4096 bytes.) (Also, I am using a WD 2340 Caviar
drive with Block Transfer mode.)
>>I beleive the version I tried was the V3.0 Power Pak upgrade.
That would have come with PCKwik version 5.01. I think the main additions with
5.10 are the CD-ROM caching and auto DoubleSpace support.
>>I can not afford to screw around with it for two or three days just to >>get
an upgrade to work.
Yeah, with DOS 6 and Norton 7 and QEMM 7 and PCKwik 5.1 and Stacker 3.1 and on
and on and on you really begin to wish people would STOP trying to improve
stuff!
I'll see if I can't come up with some comparison of PCKwik and SMARTDrive.
Dave
<< I'll see if I can't come up with some comparison of PCKwik and SMARTDrive.
Dave >>
That's great david but don't do it just on my account, like I said if there's a
performance imporvement I'd be interested but I know your time is valuable too.
BTW I noticed this is under "OS/2 issues" I neglected to tell you I'm running
DOS 5.0 not OS/2. Sorry bout' Dat'<g>
James M. Murphy
I'm not sure why we're under this subject heading either, as I'm running DOS as
well — I think I jumped in on someone's thread with Mr. Pyros.
Dave
PMJI . . . .
I just installed Qemm 7.01 and it works fine with AAP and 3DS. The 7.01 patch
can be downloaded from "GO QEMM" in library 1. The file name is: 7TO701.EXE.
Alec Jason
Thanks Alec, Just got my Patch Disk(s) from quarterdeck this afternoon. I'll
probably try it again this weekend. Usually as soon as I try to install
something a big client deceides to "Drop By" so I can show em' something or
they might even bring a prospect. Veeery uncool to have the Demo machine
burping code all over the place.<g>
James M. Murphy
Greg answered it about as simply as possible. Regarding the new Phar Lap DOS
extender in R3 (PL 5.x)… there is no need for OS/2! Someone asked if it was
COMPATIBLE with it, and I said yes. It'll run perfectly under DOS and the
Windows DOS box.
– G
>>It'll run perfectly under DOS and the Windows DOS box.<<
Are you saying that there won't be an appreciable performance loss under
windows, or that it will just "run". I am aware that true multitasking will
take a bite out of speed, but sometimes it would be nice to take a quick peak
at another program while rendering, or perhaps look up a windows graphics file
to use as a texture map, etc., and loading up and unloading windows is a small
nuisance. Of course, if there is a measureable decrease in speed, never mind.
I am assuming the PIF settings are maxed for 3D Studio, etc.
Lydell
No appreciable performance loss, but you're more limited as to what display
drivers you can use.
– G
>>but you're more limited as to what display drivers you can use.<<
Just so we get better than the 16 color windows default <G>!
No problem.
– G
Will it run under Desqview/X? That is 3.0?