#CD audio skips in Win3.1
21 messages in this thread
Hi Sysop!
I hope you can help me with this. I've been struggling with this problem for
months now, and have not been able to resolve it.
I am using the following:
386/25 AT clone w/ COM1, COM2, LPT1
IDE interface to two floppies and two hard drives
Trantor T130 SCSI host adapter
Texel CD-ROM drive
Microsoft Mouse on COM1
Orchid ProDesigner II Super VGA card
When I use any Windows 3.1 application to play CD audio (the newest Music Box,
Microsoft Beethoven, etc) slight movements of my Microsoft mouse cause the CD
audio to skip! If I do this enough, it will eventually hard hang Windows 3.1.
If I don't touch the mouse, all works well.
What is going on here? I suspect an IRQ, I/O or memory conflict, but have
tried every trick in the book to test this. This includes removing every
unnecessary card from my system, excluding all upper memory usage by both
MS-DOS and Windows 3.1, and checking every piece of documentation I have to see
if I have a conflict. Thus far I have not been able to find any areas of
conflict.
Any ideas?
Sincerely,
James McDaniel
Hi James…
I am not familiar with your SCSI interface, but I can probably point you in the
right direction. COM1 is most likely using IRQ4. If your host adapter is
also using IRQ4, you will need to change the setting on your host adapter. (In
most computers, COM1 uses IRQ4, COM2 uses IRQ3, LPT1 uses IRQ7, LPT2 uses
IRQ5.)
If you have Windows 3.1, you also have a good diagnostic utility. Run MSD.EXE
from the Windows directory. When you get in, I suggest you look at the IRQ
list, (on of the push buttons – pressing Q will bring it up) to take a look at
what is allocated. Here is the way it usually works. If you have an ISA
machine, interrupts can usually be shared but you cannot access both devices on
the same interrupt at the same time. If you do, strange things will happen.
(most likely what is happening in your case). EISA machines usually do not
like to share interrupts. If you are not sure what interrupt the host adapter
is using, then I suggest you disable your COM ports temporarily, boot and run
MSD again. If the one of the COM port interrupts is still reported as in use,
then the host adapter is probably using that one. Then you only need to figure
out out to move it.. (and where)..
Good Luck.
Mike Cassano
Mike,
Thanks for the ideas. I've been using MSD quite a bit. It shows IRQ4 being
COM1. I've even used Windows Control Panel to change both the IRQ and I/O
address of COM1, but it didn't help. I'll try disabling my COM ports.
According the Trantor T130 manual, I have my dip switches and jumpers set up to
*not* use an interrupt.
Trantor Sysop – Is this correct? By having all the switches at their default
setting, and having the IRQ jumper at default (no interrupt) the T130 hardware
never uses an interrupt?
Take care,
James
MSD is not the best program in the world to check IRQ's. It really only
tells you if the IRQ is taken by what it would noramly be taken by.
This mean you could have a sounds board at IRQ 4, and it could list it as
being COM1, or list it as being free.
Dave
Elite MicroComputers – Flying high on AutoPilot
Dave,
Can you suggest a good program(s) for checking IRQ's, etc.?
Thanks,
Lee
I wish I could…..I have a real need for one, but have yet to find it.
Dave
Elite MicroComputers – Flying high on AutoPilot
Hi James.
Merrill has excellent suggestions.
In the same vein, you might try changing your mouse to COM2 and reconfiguring
the driver as such.
Regards, Bob
Thanks Bob! Though I've changed the IRQ and I/O address of COM1 and it didn't
help, I'll try putting the mouse on COM2 just in case.
Any other ideas?
Take care,
James
Hi James.
<<Any other ideas?>>
Well, yes. But let me know how that works. If no better, you could also
disable COM1…that would make sure IRQ4 is available.
It's got to be a conflict like this, though; and by process of elimination
you're bound to find it.
Regaaards, Bob
Bob,
Thanks for your help thus far. I switched my mouse to COM2, but this didn't
help. Same problem with my mouse on COM2:
1. CD audio skipping
2. Music Box (and other CD audio tools for Windows) getting confused when
tracking the progress of the song. The little "progress meter" that tells you
how far into the song you are actually starts flipping around, and often
disappearing!
3. Eventual hang of Windows
One last weird point. It only seems to happen if I move my mouse very slowly.
Fast mouse movement all over my mouse pad doesn't seem to cause the problem.
But slow, slight, circular, movements always cause the problem.
I can't find a way to "disable" my COM ports, and CMOS setup didn't have an
option for this. I don't really need to unplug the COM1 port hardware, do I?
Now I need those other ideas, Bob!
Take care,
James
I guess I got two messages…but one additional thing caught my eye. You're
using a sound card. Have you contacted the mfj. about it? I've heard many
people have trouble with conflicts on those…
Bob
I switched my Microsoft Mouse to COM2, but the problem still occurs. Argh!
Take care,
James
Hi James.
Boy, looks as though you have a pretty stubborn quirk there. As I recall, you
were having a problem with IRQ4 conflict. Perhaps you could try disabling COM1
on your system (mother) board. You know…I bet there is something else trying
to use IRQ 4. I think you're gonna have to look at everything and trace each
jumper, etc. to make sure.
Other than that, only thing left is re-copying the drivers from their
associated original disks…I've seen quirky drivers before…in fact, I've
seen it with a mouse driver.
Keep pluggin'
Bob
Bob,
I will try disabling COM1 on my motherboard, just to see if it affects
anything, and put my mouse on COM2. However, Jack (from Trantor) says that my
T130 SCSI host adapter simply does NOT use an IRQ. So the IRQ conflict (if
any) can't be with the T130 card.
Also, I do have a SoundBlaster card. But I completely removed that from my
machine long ago (along with all other unnecessary boards) and it didn't solve
the problem.
I've recopied my mouse drivers. I'll do the same with my SCSI and CD-ROM
drivers. I've seen stranger things be the cause for problems like this.
I've been tracing every interrupt, DMA channel, I/O port address and memory
region in use on my computer, in an attempt to resolve this problem. I
completely removed EMM386, and started Windows with the /d:x switch so it
wouldn't use *any* upper memory. Nothing has helped. Thus far, I havn't found
the source of the conflict. I even turned BIOS shadowing off but this didn't
help.
Take care,
James
I'd also expect a conflict somewhere with the number of 'ticks' the mouse it
taking from your system. Probably the best thing is to try a different mouse
driver! If you are running the T130 in default position, it isn't using an
IRQ, so it sounds like the mouse is hogging your CPU time.
I've never seen that happen, so it would be interesting to reproduce your setup
and try to cause that 'skip'. What Mouse driver version are you using? What
happens if you don't load a mouse driver in DOS and just use the Win 3.1
built-in driver? What T130 driver version(s) are you using?
Jack,
Thanks for the reply. I noted my driver versions, but forgot to bring them
with me. I know the ASPI manager is version 1.01, and I think the CD-ROM
driver is version 1.46f (or something like that). I will post the exact
version numbers later tonight.
Thanks for the info about the T130 not really using an interrupt.
I am using a Microsoft Mouse (version 2.0) and the Microsoft Mouse driver
version 9.00, the very latest. I did try not loading the MS-DOS mouse driver,
and just using the Windows mouse driver (MOUSE.DRV version 9.0) – same problem.
I tried using the original Windows (for Workgroups) MOUSE.DRV – same problem.
I'm don't think that the mouse is "hogging the CPU" or interrupts as you
speculate. Here's why. First, the problem only seems to happen if I move my
mouse very slowly. Fast mouse movement all over my mouse pad doesn't seem to
cause the problem. But slow, slight, circular, movements always cause the
problem. Second, CD audio tools for Windows like Music Box really freak out.
The little "progress meter" that tells you how far into the song you are
actually starts flipping around, showing up at 0 then back at the proper time
index, and often disappearing entirely. Lastly, this will often eventually
hang Windows hard. Also, I have another machine at work (totally different
brands of everything) and CD audio works flawlessly under the exact same
version of Windows, Mouse and mouse drivers. If it were simply CPU or
interrupt hogging, none of the above would be true.
Any other thoughts or ideas would be appreciated Jack.
Take care,
James
Make sure you add the command line parameter /p3 to your TSLCDR.SYS line. That
will allow seeks that Microsoft applications usually need to operate correctly.
If things only happen with slow movements of the mouse, it sure sounds like a
software driver problem to me. Try an older version of the mouse driver and
see if it behaves correctly. Similar systems can often be vastly different in
the .INI files, etc.
Jack,
I confirmed that the ASPI manager is version 1.01 and the CD-ROM driver is
version 1.46f. I tried adding the /p3 line to TSLCDR.SYS, but it did not
resolve the problem.
I have tried an older version of the mouse driver. As I stated in my previous
message, I removed the MS-DOS mouse driver, and used the MOUSE.DRV that came
with Windows (for Workgroups) version 3.1. The same problem occured. I even
plugged in the old Microsoft Mouse version 1.0 (aka "dove bar" mouse) and the
same problem occurs.
Agreed, the WIN.INI and especially SYSTEM.INI files can make systems behave
very differently.
Why would the CD audio behave differently then other CD-ROM access??? If it
were a system-wide problem (driver conflict, something goofy in an INI file,
etc) it seems like I would see this problem during *any* CD-ROM access. But
this is not the case. I use many CD-ROM tools, many Microsoft multimedia
products, plus MSDN and Visual C++ on CD-ROM, even 7th Guest and Ultima I-VI
games on CD-ROM. These function perfectly in Windows and MS-DOS with constant
use of the mouse.
Any other ideas you have would be greatly appreciated. And thanks for all your
time thus far!
Take care,
James
Well, you have me stumped. I can't even reproduce a mouse-caused problem in
our labs, so maybe someone else will have some ideas.
Or maybe it is just a quirk of those particular discs. Isn't Windows fun???
<g>
Jack,
Thanks for your efforts to date. I appreciate your attempt to replicate the
problem. I'm sure the problem is specific to my machine configuration. I work
in technical support too, and understand that when a problem can't be
replicated it's very hard to make any progress.
Are there any other T130 jumper settings, dip switches, or device driver
options that I should try? For example, I could force the T130 to use an IRQ.
Would stuff like this be worth trying?
All other forum members who see this message – Has anybody else *ever*
experienced a problem similar to mine? If so, how did you resolve it?
If I do make any progress on this I'll let you know. Thanks again Jack.
Take care,
James
You can try forcing an IRQ if you like… make sure you add the /Ix command
line parameter for the IRQ number as well as the jumper on the T130.
The address of the card shouldn't make a difference, but you can try changing
that, too, if you like. That's done with the first 2 switches on the switch
block. You can even try the 0 wait state jumper that is just behind the
external DB25 SCSI connector to see if that makes a difference.
Nothing SHOULD make a difference, but you never know.