#3D STUDIO ON GTWY 2000
32 messages in this thread
JEFF,
I AM PURCHASING A NEW GATEWAY 2000 4DX2-66V AND WILL BE PURCHASING AN
ADDITIONAL COPY OF 3D STUDIO. THERE IS AN ATI ULTRA PRO VIDEO W/ 1MB VRAM ON
VL-BUS SUPPLIED WITH THE SYSTEM. DOES AUTODESK HAVE AN ADI DRIVER FOR THIS
VIDEO CARD OR WILL I NEED TO PURCHASE A VISTA, TARGA, OR SOME OTHER GRAPHIC
BOARD TO RENDER MY 3DSTUDIO IMAGES AT 24-BIT DEPTH?
You need no special video board to render 24 bit images. Viewing them is
another matter. If you wish to view them in 24bit on the ATI you will need to
get the 2MB version of the card and the 68875 true color RAMDAC (not sold
separately). The card comes with Vibrant drivers for 3DS2.
DanP
I would like to start using 3d studio. what is the min requirement as far as HD
space, memory and graphic card to create and view images.
John, a minimal setup would include 4megs ram, 386/25 although any 386 without
a math co-processor will afford outrageous rendering times, and at least
250megs of HD space. There are so many graphics cards to choose from that you
would pretty much have to decide what you will be using 3DS for, before making
a purchase. 1024×786 display would be preffereable, as would 24 bit color
(hi-color, 16.7mil colors, etc…), since you can render at any resolution, and
targa files, the picture format of choice, comes in 24-bit and 24+alph channel.
Also, four megs of RAM really keeps things bottled up swapping to disk during
rendering, so 16megs is getting closer to the mark.
Good rule of thumb: the more you got (mem, HD), the more 3DS will use.
And don't forget to buy a graphics card with a useable driver for 3D Studio.
^.^ jt
According to the Installation abd Performance Guide, John, A math co-processor
is a system requirement.
-Alan Iglesias
Actually there is PD/Shareware software that allows a 386 to emulate a math
coprosser, and as a gag we actually got it to work with 3DS (s…l…o…w…).
DanP
I can imagine…
-Alan
PS It didn't specify a *hardware* FPC!<g>
<And don't forget to buy a graphics card with a useable driver for 3D Studio>
Not all drivers are equal. If you purchase a graphics card that comes with a
Vibrant Graphics driver for 3D Studio 2.0 OR AutoCAD (driver version 2.1.5 or
later), you will get the only graphics driver available that actually
accelerates the 3D Studio 2.0 display (Main Editor, Keyframer, etc.) by 40%
over other 3DS2 drivers.
Of course, if you select a board that doesn't include the driver, you can get a
retail version of the driver (called ProRes/3DS) direct from Vibrant
inexpensively.
Brian Vibrant Graphics
Brain,
How can we get a list of Cards that ship with the Vibrant driver? Also what is
the cost of the driver alone for 3Ds users?
Thanks, PAT
Pat,
I would like to provide a comprehensive list of companies that ship with our
driver, but believe it or not, it would be against our policy to do so. It
would be very unfair to publish a list on this public forum and leave out one
of our partners, or fail to list one that joined up soon after publishing the
list. Also, we recommend that users buy graphics cards based on their graphics
needs. Yes, a 3DS accelerator would be a big plus for a graphics card if you're
a 3DS user, but it isn't the only thing to consider.
If you are considering some specific cards, I would be happy to tell you which
are equiped with our software. However, you should ask the card manufacturer
to make sure that they are shipping our drivers with ALL of their models.
The driver is called ProRes/3DS. I will EMail you the pricing. For more
information, or to pick up a copy, call Vibrant at 800-937-1711.
Best Regards, Brian Massey, Vibrant Graphics
For what it's worth, I've been using the Virbrant Graphics drivers with my ATI
Ultra Pro card, and the results have been both fast and rock steady. Have not
had one single problem is hundreds of hours of use.
Ron
Ron,
Thanks for the shot in the arm.
Best Regards, Brian Vibrant Graphics
How do I get a driver fot a Cirrus logic based board? How much would it
cost…. What will I gain over the (free) Panecea driver I am using now?
–Nat'n
Nathan,
ProRes/3DS from Vibrant Graphics supports the Cirrus Logic chipset. I will
provide pricing to you via EMail.
ProRes/3DS is more than a driver. It is also an accelerator for 3DS 2. It will
accelerate the "wire frame" drawing of 3DS by 30% to 40%. I have some
benchmarks on the "3ds2 drivers" thread here in the ASOFT Forum. If you think
about where you spend the majority of your time with 3D Studio, you'll agree
that even 30% acceleration can translate into hours saved very quickly.
Furthermore, if you wish to use a high resolution mode for your Main Display,
Keyframer, etc., you will find that other third party drivers (including
RCPVESA) actually slow down 3D Studio. It isn't that these drivers are slow at
drawing, it's that ProRes/3DS optimizes some of the things 3D Studio does
BEFORE drawing.
>>What will I gain over the (free) Panacea driver<<
The major advantage that ProRes/3DS has over the free Panacea driver is that it
is less expensive. How can a driver be less expensive than a free product? By
paying for itelf and then some. If you use 3DS daily you will find that the
hours you save each week translate into some big dollars. ProRes/3DS quickly
pays for itself and after that you pocket the savings yourself.
That's my sales pitch. Sorry to be so long winded, but we are a little bit
proud of the things we can do. Call us at 1-800-937-1711 to get a copy.
Best Regards, Brian Massey
John, I would say 16MB ram the absolute minimum, the absolute fastest processor
you can afford. Hard drive and graphic card depend on what you plan to do with
the output. If you never need to go past 256 colors for FLICs then any
VGA/SVGA card will do. Personally, I feel that without a 24bit card you won't
be able to get the most of what your paying for. If you want to go out to tape
with professional looking stuff (24/32 bit), you need a graphics card like the
Vista that can output NTSC as well as the SVGA card. Some larger 24bit images
can take over 1MB each, so figure that in to what you need for a hard drive.
Besides 3DS you'll probably want a couple of supporting art packages like
Animator Pro for 256 color art & flics as well as good 24bit touchup/edit/paint
program of the PhotoStyler/PhotoShop variety. Whatever your goal is, I think
there are plenty of 3DS user on this forum that will be glad to steer you to
the optimimum setup for you.
Good Luck,
DanP
Craig,
Regarding your buying a Gateway 4DX2-66V, I have one too and have run into an
interesting problem which you might not be aware of. I expanded my RAM beyond
16MB so I could render complex geometry faster (without paging to disk). To my
surprise, the machine's performance dropped off dramatically.
To use memory beyond 16MB you have to disable bios shadowing in CMOS.
Rendering images after doing so takes almost TWICE as long (85-100% longer).
That puts it roughly on par with a 486-33mhz. The guys at Gateway say this is
an inherent problem with their motherboard, and there is no fix for it. You can
get by with 16MB but you know–just like with disk drives–the more megs the
better!
Just thought you might be interested.
–Parris
Parris,
Howdy. Try using QEMM on your system. While your CMOS needs BIOS
shadowing off to access greater than 16 Meg RAM, QEMM can be used to shadow it
through their memory management. This should give you your performance back
AND let you use all the RAM. Note that if you are using Windows, you will want
to use QEMM's EMB= parameter so that all the RAM is available as XMS when
desired.
Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
ps. did get to see some brief R. King animation in the Koon interviews. Is
there anything you can release?
Hi Kevin!
Your advice is much the same as what I originaly got from Gateway. Running
ATI's RAMBIOS.SYS and using QEMM are supposed to help. It does speed up Windows
performance and 3DS screen writes, but my rendering performance is still
dragging. Maybe I need to tweak QEMM some more, but I posted my problem on the
CIS Gateway 2000 b. board and the SysOp there told me that my problems were
inherent to the Micronics motherboard design and that there is nothing I can do
about it. Good thing to know…. too bad it's about 6 months too late for me
to send it back.
Howz things at CSA? I still owe you a demo tape. Hopefully we'll get it done
in the next couple of weeks. BTW I was looking into a new frame buffer and was
thinking about the Matrox Illuminator Pro since it has component Betacam output
option–giving me higher res plus no more transcoder. However I understand
that Diaquest does not support it directly (with their Action Animator
software) so I may not be able to digitize for rotoscoping. Hmmm. There's
always a catch. Got any ideas?
–Parris
Parris,
I don't know, I haven't experienced any major slowdown with Micronics
motherboards – in fact they're often a preferred setup. I'm not sure if the
ones provided by Gateway differ in any respects. I suggest you note the other
messages to you on the forum with specific setup recommendations.
Things have quieted down a little here as of July 2. We just completed selling
160 system interactive videodisc training systems to the Southern Calif. police
departments, sheriffs , D.A.'s & coroners. Last couple of months have been
very busy. Other activity's been good, too, but I need to now devote more
attention to our other products.
The Illuminator Pro is not a bad board, but if you could wait a little longer,
you might have something more interesting to use in a few months.
Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
Kevin:
>> We just completed selling 160 system interactive videodisc training
>> systems to the Southern Calif. police departments, sheriffs , D.A.'s &
>> coroners.
Congrats! Unless it makes it easier for them to find me! <bg>
Greg Pyros
Kevin:
There was a little article in the latest PCWEEK that the new Micronics mb that
Gateway has been shipping since May has a problem with the ATI GUP VLB cards
they have been using. Seems like Micronics worked with ATI to develop the
Gemini mb that I have (designed before the VLB spec was really tight), and when
they made this new JX30 mb, they didn't bother to talk to ATI this time and, as
they tightened their compliance to the VLB spec, they caused an incompatability
(described as causing many I/O peripherals to fail, like modem, monitor,
floppy, harddrive,…). ATI has now altered their card and will swap for free
with anyone with a problem board. Gateway is now supposed to be shipping the
improved card.
Dave
PMJI….._Please_ let me know if the QEMM solves your speed problem related to
having over 16MB of Ram on the Gateway 4DX2-66V as I have a client that just
ordered one from them with 32MB of RAM (Maybe it was 64MB-he was debating
this.) and has purchased 3D Studio from me just today. As a dealer I would
rather know about this BEFORE I do the install instead of getting a little
SURPRISE from Gateway when my client calls me to install.
Anyone else run in to this and is this a good solution?
I don't use Gateway myself but do use QEMM 6.01.
As a side note I tried loading QEMM's "NEW" version 7.0 and it promptly locked
up Animator Pro _And_ Windows. Soooo I wrote QEMM a note about it and unloaded
it from our system since 6.01 works just fine.
I now understand that there is a BUG FIX regarding Smartdrive, and some DOS 6.
Stuff and it wouldn't surprise me if there is more to come on this.
Anyone run in to the QEMM 7.0 Bugs?
James M. Murphy
James-
As I told Kevin, my rendering times were with RAMBIOS.SYS and QEMM installed.
I am no expert in tweaking performance from QEMM so I will try some more. But
check out the response I got on the Gateway 2000 CIS bulletin board under subj.
"Memory Problems." The SysOp said that there is "nothing you can do about it."
Kind of disconcerting don't you think? You may want to place a call to Gateway
yourself… And if your client still wants a Gateway, I may have one available
soon!
-Parris
James,
I've been using 3DSr2 on my 32-mb Gateway 4DX2-66V since December. I've found
that the right QEMM ROM-settings restored virtually all the performance lost by
disabling shadow RAM (in order to use >16mb RAM).
In my experiments, I didn't find that RAMBIOS.SYS enhanced performance beyond
that achieved with QEMM alone. The trick with QEMM is to avoid ROMming the
floppy control segment (which fails to work when its ROM is remapped to
QEMM-managed RAM).
Good luck.
Lee
I'm running the Gateway system, WITH QEMM 7.01 (get the patch from the
QUARTERDESK forum) and have had NO problems with 3DS, AAP, etc.
Dave
I've run into the same problem expanding my Gateway DX2/50 from 16 to 32
MB ram. But I thought although the screen writes and other bios activities
were slowed down, the actual rendering speed did not change. Am I wrong here?
— Steve
p.s. Is this a Gateway specific problem?
>> To use memory beyond 16MB you have to disable bios shadowing in CMOS.
There IS a fix for it!
This problem occurs with MANY motherboards. Just use a memory manager (like
QEMM) that will shadow your ROM for you. I have this exact system (Gateway
44DX2-66V w/ ATI GUP VLB 2Mb. Make your QEMM line include the following
statements: ROM=F900-FBFF ROM=FD00-FFFF X=B000-B7FF ROM=C000-C7FF
This shadows both the system BIOS and the video BIOS (note the specific address
of the system BIOS shadow. The area from F000-F7FF is redundant and can be
used by QEMM as high RAM, the F800-F8FF is already shown as mapped [by the BIOS
itself, or auto-relocated extended BIOS area by QEMM] and you don't want to
shadow FC00-FCFF as it screws up your floppy drives).
Thanks David, I'll try it!
-Parris
David,
I just recently got a gateway 66v, and I have been shadowing the bios
using Qemm. The entire region (F000-Ffff) is included for the system bios, but
I have not noticed any problem with the floppies. What problems were you
having? I ask so that if they start hapening to me, I'll know exactly what the
cause is.
Thanx,
David
This came on the advice of one Lee DeYoung 72321,3452 in the Gateway forum
(PCVENC). This may only have been a problem prior to the last FLASH BIOS
update. Basically, some BIOS floppy routines count on operating at a certain
speed (ie the slow speed of ROM), and when you speed them up, BOOM! you get
errors.
While QEMM 6.0X didn't automatically include the F000-F7FF area as High memory
for me, 7.0 did. Generally speaking, most BIOS are just 32k in size, and a
redundant copy is kept in the other 32k — so you can grab that area as a rule.
Dave
THANKS PARRIS FOR THE INFO. I AM CURRENTLY USING 3DSTUDIO WITH ONLY 8MB OF RAM
AND FIGURED 16MB IS MY NATURAL NEXT STEP. I KEEP YOUR INFO IN MIND WHEN I MAKE
MY NEXT NATURAL STEP