Matrox Illuminator Pro
48 messages in this thread
Greg – I missed the blast but this whole thing started because I had recently
learned of the Digital Vista which sounds very good to me. Martin K. brought my
attention to the Matrox Pro, on which I have followed up and have found to be
quite competitive. I have had Targas, first a 32 and then a 32+. Now with this
new ASDG driver I'm looking for the higher resolution. I am in support of the
Digital Vista, however there is a big price difference. Care to comment. -JE
P.S. you can make it up by inviting me to your Siggraph party 🙂
John:
>> Care to comment?
Me, come out of my closet and make a comment in public? <bg> Actually, I
am getting an evaluation of the board (who says I can't be bought? <g>) for
a month to check out. I'll post my comments afterwards!
>> you can make it up by inviting me to your Siggraph party.
Since when did it become _my_ party? <g> Does this mean that I have to pay
for it? <g> Help! Actually, all registered users will be invited to the
party hosted by Autodesk and Sony, make sure your registration cards have
been sent in! The scalpers will be out soon!
Pssst! Anyone want to trade a ticket to the Autodesk party for a mesh of
Mount Rushmore? <g>
Greg Pyros
Sorry Greg, I thought that was why Siggraph was in L.A. this year; your
reputation for giving a good party!!! (Do you feel like your being talked into
somegthing here?) And the Southern California Clan needs a host, and guess
what, I'm nomitating you. It O.K. to play the reluctant politician, now if
someone will second the nomination, we can vote Greg, Southern California
Chapter President, and we can give him one of those hats with the little
propeller on top and then we can have this big celebration see… (That's where
the party comes in Greg) and Gary will be standing by to present you with an
Official 3DS T-Shirt and everyone will clap and cheer and we'll all be happy
because 3DS R3 has been released and because Greg is giving us such a good
party. And we'll fix Gary several of those Southern California Special
Margaritas, three shots of Sauza on the rocks with a splash of Cointreau and a
twist of lime. All those in favor, say AYE! The AYE's have it Greg 🙂 -JE
P.S. Which board will you be evaluating?
John:
>> Party
Sounds good to me! Sunday, it is! How many form the San Diego contingent
can we count on? Alan, Ralph? Come on, don't be shy!
>> Which board will you be evaluating?
The new Matrox competition to the AT-Vista.
Greg Pyros
Greg – Sounds great to me too, only problem is my reservations are for Monday
night thru Wednesday, but see what I can do. Anyway, thanks! -JE
Just pass out in Greg's foyer! (PMJI and assuming you're talking about the
Sunday SIGGRAPH party).
Dave
There was a time when that would have been fine and I'm sure I'd be in good
company… by the way how is this thing shaping up? -JE
>>… by the way how is this thing shaping up?
Well, by scanning back through the public messages, it looks like the attendee
count is up to at least 25 or so…. I the list I saw included
such luminaries as: Greg Pyros
my humble self
Chuck Mies
Conrad Stoltz
John (I'm at Disneyland) Foust
Steven Lee
Paul Lind (from the Hollywood Squares) +2-3 people
Rick Rodriguez
John Ellis (guess that's you)
Yann Bertand
Martin Foster
Ted Boardman
Jack (and MAYBE Gary)
John Tissavary (+1-3 people)
Evan Yares
David Cohn
Chris Thomas
Keith Seifert
(and assorted spouses?)
AND SURELY, such persons as: Alan I., Gus G., Rachel R., Kevin K. and other of
the ASOFT-street irregulars won't let us down.
Dave
David,
Maybe. I was only planning to drive down to Anaheim on a couple of
days, and Sunday wasn't gonna be one of 'em. I should be at the Sony/Autodesk
party Tuesday night, but wasn't expecting another day. In my world (& L.A.
traffic), 40 miles is a long way to go. Then again, my idea of a vacation is 5
months on the road.
Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
>> Then again, my idea of a vacation is 5 months on the road.
You sure your name isn't Kevin Kurault?<g>
Dave
Sounds like quite a happening David, looks like I may be sleeping in the foyer
after all <g> -JE
Hea!
You'll are really making me eat my heart out with all this party talk … its
tear'n me up knowing I can't come out (wife is expecting in next couple weeks).
I'll have to count on Evan, Greg and Yann to make up for my absence.
Ang
Angelo! Yeah, that's right! I had forgotten that you had mentioned that the
"blessed event" was around then. You suppose Greg could find us a video
conferencing site? Party at one end, live birth at the other? What better way
to kick off a computer conference in the 90's, eh?
Dave
David,
Well those who have partied with me know I like to "stur the pot". I'll count
on y'all to make up for it in my absence!!
Ang
David,
Hmm .. maybe birth animation .. we could make use of that new BEER IPAS <gd&r>.
Ang
Greg,
Maybe my blast at the Digital Vista was a bit extreme, maybe the Vista
has extrodinary ablities beyond video production, but my opinion arose from
what I heard – the digital vista is aimed at the video market. In which case,
those rather extrodinary ablites are minamized. You're paying a _lot_ of money
for ablites that you don't need.
I'm still extremely green to the technical end of CGI, so I might not
see the other video uses of the Vista.
MartinK:
>> …my opinion arose from what I heard…
Oh. Mine came from using one for two years! <g> Don't get me wrong, I
agree that it is one of the more expensive cards on the market, I just said
that I thought it was worth it to me! I will be evaluating it against the
new Matrox card, but if I can't run HiRes QFX, TIPS, and Typewrite on it, it
will not be that useful to _me_.
Doesn't mean that you have to base your buying decisions on what works for
me, only I have to do that! <g> But if someone asks, I may answer! <bg>
Greg Pyros
Greg,
Even though I hate buying Vista's I have to agree with you that the Vista is a
necessary part of our equipment just simply because so much software directly
supports it in high res. We haven't found a card yet that has anywhere near the
application support and flexibility of the Vista.
Paul
Paul:
Vista – gotta love it!
Greg Pyros
John,
I'm pretty up on the IllPro, if you have any specific questions, ask .. In
general heres what you'll need to know.
The Matrox Illuminator Pro (IllPro) comes with different options. First you
have the option of either 2MB or 4MB (frame buffers). Next you can order the
card in either square pixel 640×486 or CCIR 601 720 lines. The final option is
an on-board DVE. The prices range from $2,595-$3,695 depending on the options
(no extra charge between square pixel and CCIR 601 spec's). The newest release
of the board offers component input for no extra charge and a component output
daughter card is available for $395.
The board in completely digital 4:2:2 internally. A 4:2:2:4 interface card is
in the works to allow direct digital input/output. Also, a realtime
record/playback option will be available by the end of the summer which will
basically emmulate a laser disk recorder from within your computer (fun!!).
The on-board DVE is accessed thru 3rd party software like Inscriber (character
generator) which allows page curls, etc. This is nice, since an animation
station configured with 3DS would add $3,600 and have a broadcast quality
character generator!
I'm puttin my new customers ( a few old ones) into this board because of all of
these options and future possibilities. If you want the min 3DS board, and
want the high res (720 line), the 2MB CCIR 601 card is $2,595 .. very
reasonable price. I'm currently using a 4MB, square pixel, DVE board for
demo's and animation services and have been _very_pleased_.
Ang
Angelo,
PMJI, you seem to sending each message twice. This one is #49312 and an exact
copy is #49321. I don't know if this is your software or the forums but it
happended with every message you posted today 🙂
Martin,
>> sending messages twice
Actually it was a message I had addressed to you that kept bombing my system.
I finally watched the upload, and erased the message .. but only after I sent
them twice.
Ang
Angelo – Thanks for the information, your name rings a bell, I was thinking did
we meet at Autodesk a couple of summers ago in a multi-media training course,
and also at a TrueVision seminar awhile later in L.A.? If you're based in L.A.
I think we did. But regardless I appreciate your input. Matrox is going through
some major changes, and defintely seem to be going in the right direction. The
time is right, no doubt. So here's some questions.
First, how well does the CCIR version conform to FCC standards? Second, I'm
assuming that you need a component monitor to view rendered images as the board
has no RGB out. For alot of us I think this is another fork in the road. My
system is RGB based but to stay in Broadcast with the way things are going it
looks like component all the way. Which means for me a new monitor. Add $1500
min. to the cost of the board for a monitor. Hmmm… The CCIR version does have
composite out (correct?) which is good for checking colors in NTSC and that is
an advantage. How will the realtime record / playback output, component? Thanks
again and if you've got any ideas or suggestions they will be much appreciated.
-JE
John,
>> did we meet
I'm not sure … especially after the Truevision comment
>> CCIR to standard?
I have no was of measuring it to confirm, but they say it is
>> no RGB out
You got some bad info there. The board had no RGB in, but ALWAYS had RGB out.
The outputs are RGB, Y/C, composite and ALPHA. In the current release, all
formats are timeable to ALPHA. The new board accepts component for input and a
$395 also adds component output.
Ang
Angelo – I was just writing you when I realised where the confusion was. There
is RGB as in VGA scan rates, and RGB as in 15k Video scan rates, with the later
you needed a monitor which could go down that far and used to be important
because that was how us TrueVision owners got the best signal to tape or laser
disk, however with the capability to go component on the Matrox this becomes a
mute point. However I have some software which requires a 15k Video Display.
The RGB you're referring to is the hi-scan rate variety with the advantage of
being non-interlaced and the CCIR 601 version runs at 720×486 in full 32 bit
with the correct aspect ratio on an SVGA monitor, is this correct? What's the
minimum scan rate for the monitor? Do people typically use a one or two monitor
setup? As to our meeting, it was Martec who was giving the TrueVision demo. If
we haven't met, I hope we will at Siggraph. Thanks for your help. -JE
John,
<a mute point>
Sounded pretty noisy to me <g>.
Martec is a sales rep organization in Los Angeles (Torrance, actually) that
once represented Truevision in this territory. Truevision went direct after
the merger with Rasterops. Since Angelo is on the other end of the country,
Martec would not have been his rep (although we are a dealer originally setup
with Intratec, the previous rep, and then with Martec).
Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
Well Kevin, for my primary application it is a << mute point >> as having the
ability to go component would advance my current situation. The part that is
not mute however is what type of RGB we're talking about because it determines
the type of monitor that will be required. -JE
John,
All of the customers that I've sold the board to (and myself) are using the
board in a dual display mode. I've got a PVM 1341 for a video monitor … it
has RGB, Y/C and 2-compsites. I usually go both RGB and composite straight
into the 1341 and Y/C into the deck and loop out into the monitor. That way
when I'm rendering, I can switch to RGB and see what I'm missing .. switch to
Y/C and see what I'm getting and then switch to composite and see how bad it'll
eventually look <g>
Ang
Angelo – So the Matrox board does output 15k RGB Video! Contrary to another
forum member's comments. I appreciate your clarifying the discrepancies about
this board, there has been much misinformation. Your dark humor regarding RGB,
Y/C and Composite hits home. One of these days it'll all be digital and these
things won't be a concern. Does Matrox have Windows drivers for the 720×486
resolution, so that I can run Photoshop or something similar, or is this
software dependent? I recall your mentioning Windows drivers for the 640×480
version but wasn't sure about the other. This could be a hot setup and *very*
cost effective. Thanks again. -JE
>> windows drivers
At the present time, the card doesn't have any interlaced windows drivers, but
they should be comming around the corner. The board is very interesting. When
set-up with single monitor, VGA pass thru, the card automatically sences that a
VGA is hooked up to it and outputs interlaced graphics on the RGB line while
still producing non-interlaced on the other outputs. When setup in this
fasion, you can run an application called Video Presentation Plus in windows.
The Illuminator Pro then operates as a non-interlaced 640×480 24-bit Windows
card. You can then run video in a window and capture frames etc. This is the
setup used in the Studio system. The down side (until the latest version of the
Pro with composite in/out<opt.>) is that Y/C was the best you could do for
video since the RGB was used to drive the VGA monitor. This is the main source
of the confusion regarding the output capabilities .. since the Pro can be
configured a couple different ways.
Ang
Angelo – I assume you caught the message from Alain at Matrox. Sure appreciate
your follow up. By the way congratulations on the baby, sorry you have to miss
Siggraph but having a baby kinda puts life in perspective doesn't it! 🙂 -JE
>> life in perspective
John,
Oh yea! Our 1st little girl, Aria, is SUCH A DOLL that she has completely
spoiled us to death … no fuss .. no muss. We're "hunkering" down for this
next one though … the law of averages will work out sooner or later. We know
that this next one will be another little girl. If the sonograms aren't lying,
she be named Lucia Rosa Guarino (the first one is Aria Leanna). Thanks for the
nice thoughts .. that's to everyone.
Ang
Ang – You've given your daughters lovely names, nice too that you are so
enthusiastic. Congratulations again and best wishes. -JE
Yes the Illuminator Pro ship with a 720×486 Windows driver. As long as you buy
the CCIR board.
In September we will have also an interlace Windows driver. Given the
capability of this board, the Matrox interlace will be interlace but flicker
free, through some special circuitry we've got on the board.
The RGB output is effectively working well in non-interlace (VGA output) and
interlace (15 Khz).
I hope that these points clarify your questions.
Alain Legault Matrox
Alain – Sounds like you've got a good thing going with this CCIR 601 board. I
think it will do what I need to do, aparently there are alot of possible
combinations as well. Basically I'd like to be able to render in 720×486 and
view the images, and paint the images; which I will probably do in Windows. I
also like the upgrade potential to Beta Analog Component. This opens up alot of
possibilities. Thanks -JE
Hi,
Effectively you can render in 720×486 with the CCIR board. A number of
paint programs are available for the Illuminator Pro. Call 800-4MATROX and ask
for the Illuminator Pro Matrox Solution guide. This brochure describes the
software packages available for our product.
Best regards,
Alain Legault Matrox
John,
The 601 board may be a nice solution, but you may want to think about getting
the 640×486 version (square pixel). Because of the square pixel, you won't get
any image warping when using "stock backgrounds". Also, the images rendered
for video, when resscaled for VGA, will show little distortion. If you've
worked with a Targa board, you know what a pain this can be.
Ang
Ang – Most of my work is in the video domain, I currently have two Targas, one
a 32 and the other a 32plus and while I can change to 720x486x16 for viewing, I
really need a 32bit board for painting at this resolution. The Targas have been
great, no complaints. I haven't needed the higher resolution of the Vista in
spite of its purported benefits. I find I get excellent results going to laser
disk and then to Beta SP through the component link. And Beta SP is still
better than Laser Disk. I'd buy the Digital Vista but its almost 3x's the
price, and I'm sure its a great board but the focus on my systems is animation
to video and I don't really need all the features of these boards as it is, but
I will need to go out Beta Component. Also Sony's developement of Beta Digital
is going to be a strong influence on the market IMHO and I find the Matrox
daughter board concept an advantge as I think they will come out with a
daughter board for Digital component. (Its a better gamble than going RGB for
me anyway for which I know I would have to buy a digital converter.) Also with
regard to the CCIR version, I recently learned that the NBC affiliate in Palm
Desert hooked one up to a waveform/vectorscope, (I might add the engineer was
*very* skeptical) and pronounced it stable and within FCC limits. Can't do
better than that. I have two Cirrus Logic 640x480x24 for VGA and Windows when I
need to work with square pixels, which occasionally I do for portfolio work. It
does seem that I am in the minority with regard to this CCIR version but we
each find our own niche, and the fact that TrueVision is also taking this
course lends weight to the direction things are going in. However, I'm waiting
to see what influence R3 may have on this before I finalise my plans. Thanks
again for your input – JE
I checked with Matrox and 3D Studio uses the Graphics Frame Buffer on the
Illuminator Pro, which is RGB format, and not YUV.
Bill Claghorn
>> frame buffer RGB
Bill,
I'll check on that. I was under the impreession that when the YUVA 4224 output
was available that this would access the frame buffer as well. At this time its
kind'a vaporware and is hard to pin down. I was also under the impression that
EVERYTHING was converted to YUV internally before encoding and output.
Thanks … I'll get the Matrox tomm.
Ang
Hi,
I think I can help with this business of RGB vs YUV out.
The Illuminator Pro is capable of outputing the 3DS rendered images in
BOTH RGB and encoded video (composite, SVHS and analog component). It will
aalso support digital D1 by September. The images are rendered in the RGB
buffer.
The RGB output is direct. The encoded output goes through a RGB to YUV
digital transcoder (on-board). This transcoder does "proper" conversion in
order to preserve the quality to nothing but broadcast. There is no more need
for external transcoder that introduce extra delays, noise and $$$.
Best regards,
Alain Legault MATROX
Alain,
Is Matrox going to be at Siggraph with this unit? We're interested in seeing it
or at least seeing its D1 output.
If Matrox is saying that their on board A/D D/A unit does a better job than the
standard industry transcoders, I'm extremely interested. How much will the
board sell for with this transcoder? What type of environment is the board
designed for?
Paul
Paul,
The component output module is $395. Component input is no extra charge. I've
got a board for demoing purposes at the office. Next time your up to visit
Charlie, come by .. or just send Charlie by.
Ang
Angelo,
I'm hoping to get up that way before I leave for Siggraph. If I manage to Make
it to the area I'll give you a call.
I bet you're excited about your new delivery. Two weeks? I definately wouldn't
wander far from home. My wife just delivered our second on Jan 4th of this
year, each time I feel like I've witnessed a miracle.
Paul
Congradulations!!!!!
…so where're the cigars?
>> new one on Jan.
Paul,
I just have to laugh at nature sometimes and how everything worksout. As a
woman get nearer and nearer to the birth, she is getting up every 2-3 hours to
pee … perfect lead-in training for both for the sleepless nights ahead.
Congrats on the new one. Hope to see'ya soon.
Ang
Alian,
>> RGB to YUV transcoder
Thanks for clearing that up.
Ang
John,
I'm pretty up on the IllPro, if you have any specific questions, ask .. In
general heres what you'll need to know.
The Matrox Illuminator Pro (IllPro) comes with different options. First you
have the option of either 2MB or 4MB (frame buffers). Next you can order the
card in either square pixel 640×486 or CCIR 601 720 lines. The final option is
an on-board DVE. The prices range from $2,595-$3,695 depending on the options
(no extra charge between square pixel and CCIR 601 spec's). The newest release
of the board offers component input for no extra charge and a component output
daughter card is available for $395.
The board in completely digital 4:2:2 internally. A 4:2:2:4 interface card is
in the works to allow direct digital input/output. Also, a realtime
record/playback option will be available by the end of the summer which will
basically emmulate a laser disk recorder from within your computer (fun!!).
The on-board DVE is accessed thru 3rd party software like Inscriber (character
generator) which allows page curls, etc. This is nice, since an animation
station configured with 3DS would add $3,600 and have a broadcast quality
character generator!
I'm puttin my new customers ( a few old ones) into this board because of all of
these options and future possibilities. If you want the min 3DS board, and
want the high res (720 line), the 2MB CCIR 601 card is $2,595 .. very
reasonable price. I'm currently using a 4MB, square pixel, DVE board for
demo's and animation services and have been _very_pleased_.
Ang