#Windows on a 386bb
31 messages in this thread
Dear BB Experts,
I hope you can offer some advice to a Bridgeboard newcomer who is badly in
need of it.
The newly fitted 386 bb in my 030-2000 has 4-meg of extended memory and
boots off a 32 meg partition on my Amiga HD.
I did not expect lightning performance from a 25 mhz 386 but had thought
Windows 3.1 and WordPerfect for Windows 5.2 would at least be usable.
Both look good (!) via the VGA card and switch-box on my NEC 3D monitor
but take an enormous amount of time to load and are then practically
useless as even a mouse movement or single key depression sets off
anything up to 5 minutes of frantic HD activity.
I assume the problem lies either in the memory management or the "swap"
files Windows creates on the (very full) disc.
Is there anything I can do to improve matters?
So far, I have installed Stacker to compress my PC partition, am using
Smartdrive but not on double-buffering, have MS-DOS working in High
Memory, files set to 20 and buffers set to 30.
Sorry if all this is really basic stuff but it`s driven me made for the
last 3 days trying to find some way of "optimizing" the system.
Am I just asking too much from the board…do I need a PC-Hard Disc….is
there something obvious I am missing in the set-up (I hope it`s that as I
don`t think the bank balance will stand any more kit!).
Any help would be really appreciated.
Tony
Tony,
Yes…you need a PC side HD to get any performance. The Amiga side HD
is *very* slow compared to a BB side HD. One of the reasons for the slowdown
is the dual ported RAM interface that's used to transfer teh data back and
forth between the Amiga side and the BB side.
Don
Don,
Thanks for the advice re. a PC side HD. It`s bad news from the money side
of things but good to know which way I have to go.
I`ll start saving the pennies!
Tony
I agree that a PC side HD is the best solution. Sorry that I cannot give
you a full and proved answer, but:
I was told that Performance seems to be better if files are put on a JLINK
virtual drive instead of an Autoboot virtual drive. I have no idea whether
this is true, because I use a separate PC HD. I have no idea either which
files or directories to put there, maybe the total windows dir?
Manfred <- flying from FRA via Autopilot (Amiga) 1.052
Manfred,
Nope…JLINK drives are as slow, if not slower than AutoBoot drives.
Among other things…there's a device driver to go thru, with AutoBoot
drives, it's via the BIOS.
Don
Don,
thank you. Do you refer to an Autoboot drive as a drive on the PC side
(harddisk)? I was referring to the so called Autoboot drive, that is a
virtual drive sitting on the Amiga harddisk. Is your statement valid for
this latter one also?
Manfred <- flying from FRA via Autopilot (Amiga) 1.052
Manfred,
I was refering to your statement that JLink drives were faster than
(Amiga side) Autoboot drives (created via MakeAB).
Don
Don,
ok fine, thank you.
I was curious because you mentioned the bios as a driver portion.
Manfred <- flying from FRA via Autopilot (Amiga) 1.052
Tony,
go into startup-sequence and put a buffer size of around 2000 for the
partition on which you have created the the 32meg pc drive.
Pete Jones, flying on AutoPilot from Brussels, Belgium
Pete,
Thanks for the idea. I have tried this already and I`m afraid it is not
the answer.
Yes, it does speed things a little but I`m convinced now the only real
answer is a PC-side HD…..
Tony
Tony,
I have a 2386 Bridgeboard running at 20MHz with 3MB RAM. It is installed
in an A2500 with 1MB chip RAM plus A2630 card(25MHz 68030 & 4MB RAM). The
partition holding the 32MB PC pseudo-hard drive (driveC) has a buffer
value of 2000. I noted how long it took to start Windows 3.1 under MS-DOS
5.0. From the time the Windows version 3.1 logo appeared on the screen to
the point where the hour-glass cursor disappeared was roughly 20 seconds.
How does that compare with your system?
Pete Jones, Flying on AutoPilot from Brussels, Belgium
Pete,
I`m in awe…. 20 secs from Windows logo to hour glass cursor disappeared
….I am looking at more like 10 minutes!!
My system has a GVP 25MHz 68030, 1 MB chip ram, 12 MB fast ram. I am
running at 900 buffers for the 32MB PC-partition at present but am about
to up this.
Maybe I need to up it a lot!
Tony.
Tony,
it took me 18 seconds from the C:> prompt in A2386SX bridgeboard to bring
up Windows 3.1 until the hourglass cursor appeared and some more 6 seconds
to bring up the programm manager and two group windows. Ready for use then
after 24 seconds.
The real long time is to bring up the PC itself. A warm boot on the BB
side costs me 39 seconds from Ctl-Alt-Del to the C:> prompt.
For a cold boot I will take the time next time I have to reset everything
and then report.
This system is Amiga 2000 (with A2620 board – 68030 inside), ECS; 40 MB
hard disk and 88 MB SyQuest and CD-ROM on GPI SCSI; 6 MB ram; NEC
Multisync 3D with flickerfixer per manual switch connected to the VGA card
on the PC-side;
PC part: A2386SX, 5 MB, 100 MB IDE Harddisk.
I am running at 32 buffers for each of the 3 partitions I have on the
Amiga side. But I am not using virtual PC Drives on the Amiga harddrive (=
no ABoot nor JLINK).- Also I am running DRDOS 6.0 with SSTORE (i.e.
similar to DoubleSpace) and SuperPCKwik.
Manfred <- flying from FRA via Autopilot (Amiga) 1.052
Tony,
A confession. I have two Amigas side by side. The A2500 configuration I
described in my previous message and an A3000 with 2MB chip and 3.5 fast
(the other .5 holds Kickstart). Since I use one monitor for both machines
and have a second monitor for the Bridgeboard, I had forgotten that I
recently moved the BB to the A3000. So that is where the 20 seconds test
was made. Having said that, the speed was not noticeably slower when it
was running on the A2500. Try putting the buffers up to 2000 and see what
happens. Ten minutes? Sheeeesh!
Pete Jones flying on AutoPilot from Brussels, Belgium
Peter,
Well…speaking of confessions I have one myself!
You will have seen the large number of replies to my original problem and
notice that most of the advice comes down to (i) use an IDE card on the
PC-side and (ii) use addbuffers on the Amiga-side virtual drive.
Right…I *knew* my startup sequence was set to 900 buffers on the
appropriate partition so was resigned to saving money for the IDE.
As more and more comments about addbuffers came in I thought I would
doublecheck. I opened a shell and typed addbuffers dh3: to get the
response *32*.
Checked the startup-sequence and sure enough, it had the command in for
900 buffers.
Went into shell again and tried to increase buffers by typing as follows
addbuffers dh3:2000
and got the answer …. invalid device or volume name dh3:2000
And then the light slowly came on!!!!
The reason I have been slaving over a hot drive for the last 2 weeks is
because I forgot to put a space between *dh3:* and *2000*
I entered the space, re-booted and HEAVEN.
If I wasn`t so pleased with the result I would be crippled with
embarassment.
Thanks to you and everyone else for telling me what I thought I knew.
Tony,
Many years ago I notice that the salt and pepper were in the wrong pots.
They were identical pots except for the fact that one had only one hole
and the other three or four. I decided to remedy the situation … and had
got as far as carefully emptying the salt into a saucer and starting to
pour the pepper into the empty pot when it dawned on me that there was an
easier way!!! It happens to us all from time to time.
I notice you have a 100…. CIS identity. Are you in the U.K.?
Pete Jones, flying on AutoPilot from Brussels, Belgium
Pete,
Of course there was an easier way…you drill two or three holes in one
pot and fill in two or three on the other. Simple once you grasp the
basics.
U.K. it is….Midlands, near Stratford-upon-Avon.
Tony
Genius, sheer genius!!
Pete Jones, flying on AutoPilot from Brussels, Belgium
Why didn't you just switch the lids?
🙂
Christopher
Yeh,
I got there in the end 🙂
Pete Jones, flying on AutoPilot from Brussels, Belgium
Hehe…..Yep, 32 buffers on a Janus partition would tend to make you feel
like throwing your Bridgeboard out the window <g>. Glad you found the
mistake and are in Bridgeboard bliss. Sometimes the old saying of "Read
The #$%^^$#$#% Manual" can save us from those embarassing moments 8^)
// John – (Flying via AutoPilot)
\X/ "Worf: To Hell with the Prime Directive – Give the Borg Windows!"
You can get fair performance using the autoboot Janus partition, but you
need to use the Amiga's "addbuffers" command on the Amiga partition that
contains the fake IBM drive file. CBM recommends at least 30-50 buffers
for every megabyte that you have set up for your IBM drive. I have a 40MB
Janus partition, so my addbuffers is about 1500.
Another thing I'm doing is using DOS-6 with the SmartDrive cache and
DoubleSpace compression. This seems to speed up the drives performance
considerably.
Even though it's not blazingly fast, it is acceptable. The best solution
is to get a IDE controller and put in a seperate HD for your BridgeBoard.
I will be doing that myself shortly.
// John – (Flying via AutoPilot)
\X/ "Worf: To Hell with the Prime Directive – Give the Borg Windows!"
John,
What version of the Janus software do you have? I am limited to a 32 meg
DriveC with the version I have.
Pete Jones, flying on AutoPilot from Brussels, Belgium
Nope, you are not limited to a 32MB Janus partition. When using MakeAB,
specify a larger number of Heads, or sectors/track. You are limited to the
number of Cylinder's (1024), but that's a minor limitation. Some of the
earlier versions of MSDOS limited you to a 32MB C: partition, but not the
current versions. And I'm using the latest version of the Janus software.
// John – (Flying via AutoPilot)
\X/ "Worf: To Hell with the Prime Directive – Give the Borg Windows!"
John,
Thanks. I'll play around with that.
Pete Jones, flying on AutoPilot from Brussels, Belgium
John,
I haven`t tried DOS-6 but am using Stacker plus SmartDrive in an attempt
to speed up my Janus partition. That and the "addbuffers" – I`m using 900
on a 32MB drive – helps but I still find Windows far too slow to be
useful.
I`m new to the BridgeBoard so have probably missed something but you say
you are using a 40MB Janus partition.
I never understood why but thought we were restricted to 32MB…is that
not right?
Anyway, thanks for the advice and I`ll try upping my buffers to nearer
your figure although I think it may just have to be an IDE drive.
Tony
Tony,
The first thing to try is increase the number of buffers. The manual
suggests 30 buffers per mb of disk space so try say 700 to start with.
Also check if you have a decent size swap file, about 5mb should do. Both
these should speed up your board a lot. For instance, my board will boot
windows in 22 secs and Excel 4.0A in 17 secs. Not exactly slow and more
than adequate for daily usage.
Pete
From Dorset in Englands westcountry
I'd also suggest buffering the Amiga side hd partition that feeds your pc
side. And clean up your hd and make a permanent swap disk, and buy some
more pc side ram. Increase buffers on the pc side if you can.
Ron
Mo Memory, Mo Memory, Mo Memory.
I've said, and now I feel much better. I have eight megs on my BB, and
still feel as If I need more(you never have too much).
If you want decent performance, you also need a drive dedicated to the
BridgeBoard. I tried partitions for a while, but they were too slow even
for the dos version of WordPerfect. (I write, and having two hundred pages
in memory, you swap like crazy(until I upgraded memory). With the
swapping to partitions, I almost lapsed into a coma. I put a HardCard in
and it screams(not Windoze, WP51 for dos. Windoze is Wondoze is Windoze.
You are never going to get extraordinary performance on a 386sx25, so far
as Windows is concerned. I have a 486/66(at work) with localbus graphics,
etc, etc, etc.. and it is smooth, but there are still ocassional lags.
Don't give up though. I'm not preaching gloom and doom. As long as you
don't have more than a couple of small tools(like the clock, marbe a
blanker) open when you use your Applications(such as WP52), then the
performance is acceptable, especially if you have not gotten used to it on
a faster machine.
Enough of my ignorant blabbering.
Hope this helps.
Mike Armstrong
Mike,
Now I have got my *addbuffers* correctly set-up I have Windows and
WordPerfect for Windows running at reasonable speed on my machine.
Sure, it`s not lightning fast but it`s good enough for my purposes and as
I am only using a 386/33 at work the difference hardly matters.
Thanks for your thoughts…. perhaps I`ll think about some more memory
once I get over the delight of having a system which is at least workable.