#VTRs and 3DS
20 messages in this thread
Mike: I've been looking at the Bandit as an alternative to the traditional
controller/editing VCR combo. It is a box that can take either (or maybe
both??) 32 MBy of RAM or a big (1.2 GBy) hard disk. You send it images in one
of several formats which it JPEG compresses and stores on tthe disk or in
memory. It is supposed to be able to play back video in real time – reading
from the disk, uncompressing, and outputting on the fly.
The idea is that you send it your animation frames one at a time and then play
the sequence back in real time to a "regular" (non-editing) recorder.
They get a lot of video time on the hard disk using 15:1 JPEG compression – the
32 MBy of RAM option stores twenty-something seconds of video, so the big SCSI
drive should store something like 20 minutes of video???
Chris
Thanks, Chris, for the info. In trying to solve what might be
several problems at once, I think I have an alternative that might
be the way I want to go (The Sanyo GVRS-950) but I need to
keep an open mind.
I think non-linear will be where we ALL end up in a few years,
but I'm just a little suspicious of this technology right now. With
so many formats and so much proprietary stuff it's hard to know
what will have a future.
Mike: I agree about non-linear being the wave of the future, but I can't tell
whether to catch this particular wave or not. I haven't seen one in action so
far. I really want to see some 3DS animation after it has been run through the
15:1 JEPG compression. JPEG is known to be good for natural images, but less so
for synthetic ones.
Chris
Chris – Ever seen one of these beasts in operation (The Bandit)? Who makes
them?
David Taffet
David:
>> Ever seen one of these beasts in operation (The Bandit)?
>> Who makes them?
They are made by a company called Fast Forward, who has been around for
years making time code equipment and other video stuff.
We have been playing with one for a month, since they asked us to write the
ADI drivers for it to run from within 3DS.
It works as advertised! No frame accurate deck required! It's a mini
Abekas that you can have in your own house! <g>
The original version had 32 megs of memory in it, which would run about 25
seconds of video, they are just now finishing installing a SCSI hard disk
that will allow it to hold up to 20 minutes of real video!
Talk about a true non-linear editing system within the reach of most 3DS
users! We are talking around $8,500 including the 2-gig disk drive!
Greg Pyros
Greg,
What's the chance of getting a demo of this thing while I'm out for Siggraph?
If it works as advertised, I'd probably like to have one just for previews..
Paul
.
Paul:
>> What's the chance of getting a demo of this thing while I'm out for
>> Siggraph? [Bandit]
Last I heard, Autodesk will have one in their booth during the show. If
not, I'm sure we can set one up for you!
Greg Pyros
Thanks Greg,
After hearing so much about this board, I'm still in awe that it could sustain
30megs per second for a sustained period of time.
Ooops, after rereading this thread, it says that it only has 32 megs of ram on
board. How does that equate to 25 seconds of frame accurate playback?
Let me guess….. This unit does some type of image compression? So the image
is alot better than 8 bit flics, but not really a replacement for frame
accurate work?
i.e – A decent size Vista TGA ~1 meg.
30 frames per second. = 30 megs.
I don't think I've ever had my hands on hardware that could do that.
Even with the hard disk space. This Bandit must have one heck of a bus.
Paul
.
Paul:
You'll have to see it to believe it! It actually has excellent playback,
and with the hard disk, will be great for 20 minutes of non-linear editing!
It uses JPEG compression, and you have control of the quality vs. length.
25 seconds is at high quality, you can get 2 minutes out of it at low!
It will digitize live video on the fly, also. Neat way to do rotoscoping!
Greg Pyros
20 minutes of video, eh? According to my quick and dirty calculations, that
would only take 8 MONTHS of continuous rendering to generate.
ohhhh… I'd give my kingdom for a cheap real-time box.
Dan
>>We are talking around $8,500 including the 2-gig disk drive!<<
Well, this is very cool, although $8500 will require that I sell some work
first (big time!). If *you* say it does what it's supposed to, I believe it.
So, what kind of peripheral devices or software would one need to add to a PC
with just a Targa or Vista to actually USE one of these?
DT
Better do your $ numbers, David, You still will need a Beta SP deck although
not frame accurate with the Bandit. You won't need SoftVTR. The frame buffer
is a wash, ie needed on both systems. Sooooo– 8500+9000beta recorder=17500.
PVW-2800+controller SW (16000+800=16800). Also I just heard a rumer from a BE
friend of mine that Sony is considering drastic price drops in the Beta lite
equipment because they are loosing too much market share of the Umatic they
once had to the SVHS. Should be an interesting year! My head is spinning with
all this stuff.
Don "beta SP wanna be" Landis
PS Got your E-mail why E-mail for these questions? I answer later.
Don:
>> The frame buffer is a wash, is needed on both systems.
Woooooaaaaahhhhh! NOT! The Bandit takes all it's images from the computer
through the SCSI bus, true digital!!!!!!! No frame buffer needed at all!!!
Greg Pyros
Right! forgot about that, guess that makes it a better deal then. Now if the
DRAM fiasco doesn't screw the price up too bad we may just have something truly
great.
Greg,
sounds like we are getting nearer to an ideal, world-class, animation solution
for animators. A bandit for previews to make sure everything looks good in
real-time, full-screen playback; an Exabyte 8500 + ADSG drivers to send off the
.tga files (not the lossy jpeg files) to be dumped to D1, D2 or BetacamSP.
Eureka! The perfect preview and final version solution with quality to match
anybody in video (not film, of course) for around $11.5k.
Don – I'm not even worrying about Beta, now. I have *never* had anything laid
to tape, to date. Going to a little 9650 would make me VERY happy right now.
DT
Greg: How does "typical" 3DS animations look with the 15:1 JPEG compression on
the Bandit? That is the one thing that I can't tell without looking at video
produced on it, and so far, I haven't seen any.
Chris
Chris:
>> How does "typical" 3DS animations look with the 15:1 JPEG compression on
>> the Bandit?
I guess we'll just have to do some and send it to you! Looks pretty good,
IMHO! Check it out at Siggraph!
Greg Pyros
Ok, I don't think that SIGGRAPH will fly for me this year because I don't know
how our travel money is doing, but I'll try to work something out…
Chris
David: No, I haven't seen one in operation so far. That is my real test – to
see how one of my typical 3DS animations look after they go through the box.
Chris