#HELP. VIDEO TAPE OUTPUT
22 messages in this thread
>Panasonic is always a good bet. You might look at Hi-8 format as well, as it
is a >little better than SVHS (holds up better over a few generations).
I use Hi-8 for my original camera footage, but dub to S-VHS for editing.
My target audience uses VHS/S-VHS so my tapes will end up there and
it's much more convenient to have that same format all throughout the
editing process (and I think I've found the machine I want, the Sanyo 950)
As much as I like Hi-8, I have so many dropouts even with one pass
through the camera that I'd be scared to death to use it for an editing
process where I'd run the tape several dozens of times. Anyway, I
usually only go down one additional generation (and the Sanyo will
probably eliminate that, with it's spare video and audio channels).
Thanks for the comments, though. While I've been active (well,
lurking) here many months ago, I came back just recently and seem
to notice that you're part of a group that publishes tips and tricks
for 3DS. Is that true? What do you have available? What prices?
Is this a good lead-in or what?
Mike –
I recently went through the process you are now going through. I had a hard
time deciding between S-VHS and Hi-8 as a choice for frame accurate recording.
What I found was that the S-VHS recorders ran around $6K and up by the time you
added the time-based correctors and related accessories to it. The Sony
EVO-9650 Hi-8 deck was my final choice because it is geared specifically for
computer animation, has the TBC built right in, and was quoted at about $4800.
All the reviews I read about the deck were very positive.
I just got it Monday, and have rendered animations from 3D Studio and Animator
Pro to it. It does a remarkable job! I rendered over 1200 frames between two
animations, and each frame was flawless. Being that you are already filming in
Hi-8, you might want to check into this deck. There's a review of the EVO-9650
on page 115-116 in the Feb/Mar 1993 (premier) issue of Desktop Video World. If
you can't find it, I'd be glad to fax a copy of the review to you.
Denise
Thanks for your comments, Denise.
Yes, I've read about the EVO-9650 — believe it or not, that was one of
the first things (before I got my Video Machine) that got me thinking about
doing 24bit animations. The awkwardness of it is that, although my
original footage is on Hi-8, I do all my editing on an S-VHS suite, which
would make the EV0-9650 kind of a poor fit. But still, I'm interested in
knowing a few things:
1) What kind of frame buffer do you use? Part of my poor fit problem
is that my Video Machine has one only "master" recorder, so if I were
to get the 9650 I'd probably want to use a separate frame buffer.
2) You said the results of the frames were good. How good is the
animation? I ask this because, through my limited experiments with
my (admittedly not frame accurate) Panasonic 1970, I seem to be
able to render each and every frame very accurately, but even with
rendering to fields I don't get that smoooooth motion I've seen in
animated efforts done by others. Is this possible with prosumer
level equipment, or I am just seeing the inadequacies of my approach?
Thanks again for replying.
I guess the best reply I have knowledge to say here is that the smoothness
would probably relate to the animation more than the frame-accurate deck,
because each frame is recorded right-on-the-money. You get exactly 30 frames
per second – no more, no less. If the smoothness is there in your keyframer
preview (for instance in the box view mode where things don't take so long to
update), it will be there in your final tape rendering, too. And believe me,
the first time you see a perfectly smoo-oo-oo-th animation rendered in true
color, it's really a fine piece of inspiration! No jaggies, no hesitations,
and crystal clear. My mind is flowing with so many ideas now since I got the
deck a few days ago, that I don't know where to begin first. I felt limited
without the deck, but now there are so many possibilities!
To answer your other question about the frame buffer, I use a Targa+ 16/32 and
Diaquest DQ-422+ animation controller. Nice, since 3D Studio has built-in
support for both. I haven't yet tried the Action Animator software option with
the Diaquest, because I've been so anxious to see what I have done so far
rendered to tape. When I get them done, I'm going to transfer them to VHS to
see how the second generation looks.
DEFINITELY get a frame accurate deck. You'll be very glad you did!
Denise
Denise:
>> You get exactly 30 frames per second – no more, no less.
How exact is your definition of exact? <g> It's actually a hair less than
30 frames per second, which is why you get into drop frame and non-drop
frame systems for video editing.
Greg Pyros
I guess my newness is showing (which is why I mentioned it was the "best reply
I could give!") <g>
I realize it's 29.(something)….Lord, sometimes it feels as if the education
never stops! I have just begun to use 3DS and AniPro with a VTR deck, and now
there's a whole new phase of learning! Well, we have to start somewhere, I
suppose! Any pointers you can give to a novice would be appreciated!
Denise
Denise:
>> Any pointers you can give to a novice would be appreciated!
The best pointer I can give anybody is to stay on this forum! ASOFT is by
far the best vehicle I know of to get questions answered and learn how
others are solving your same problems!
Greg Pyros
Denise-
PMJI, but I'm thinking of purchasing an EVO-9650 and since you just went
through the process, perhaps you can tell me what to look out for. I've been
in the architectural CG business for over 10 years but have never HAD to do
animations ao my knowledge of video is poor.
What other components are required, both hardware and software, to record a 3ds
animation to the EVO-9650? and what's the total cost?
Thanks for your help!
Steve Ormonde
Hi Steve!
Well, get ready for the list…….
The first thing you will need in addition to the EVO-9650 is an animation
controller. I was browsing through the current issue of New Media magazine at
a store and noticed that it reviewed several of them. I purchased a Diaquest
DQ-422+ (cost around $2400.00), which is directly supported by 3D Studio. If
you want to do frame-accurate video capture with the Diaquest, I also recommend
the Action Animator hardware/software option (cost $695). This will allow you
to do rotoscoping.
Secondly, you'd probably need a full-color graphics board with frame buffer,
such as the Targa+ or better. Costs of those will probably run $2K or more.
Another item that I would definitely recommend is an NTSC monitor so that you
can check what your colors will look like on tape as you develop instead of
getting surprises after the video is rendered. An example is the Sony
PVM-1342Q, which runs about $1150.
If you want to add music or sound effects, you might also want to consider a
good sound board. The Turtle Beach Multisound was my choice because it has an
on-board synthesizer and can record sound in true CD-quality. It is primarily
a Windows-based board, though. Lists for $599.
And don't forget the cables!
The book mentioned in this thread (AutoCad 3D Design and Presentation) goes
through several levels of hardware and software recommendations. I'll extend
my compliments to the authors of this book, too. It's very good!
Good luck in your search! I'm sure you may also get recommendations for other
items, but this setup worked flawlessly with 3D Studio, since it was all
included in the program with built-in support.
Denise
Denise:
>> an animation controller…for the EVO-9650…cost me around $2400.00
No need to spend anywhere that much for a controller for the EVO-9650! Both
DiaQuest and Soft VTR make a software only controller for around $1,000 –
and our ADI driver for it lists at $595!
Greg Pyros
Hello again!
At the time that I was gathering quotes for my system, I think SoftVTR was
relatively new and I don't think the Diaquest one was even available. I
decided to go with the hardware-based controller. I didn't know what deck I
was going to get at the time. It took a LONG time for my system to go through
approval channels. The EVO-9650 deck came four months later as a much needed
afterthought.
I left a similar message elsewhere on the board, but I'll question it here, too
– does SoftVTR or the Diaquest software option offer the same number of
features as a hardware-based controller? Is it more/less versatile? Would
there be any advantage to having both, or would it just be duplication?
Thanks for your input! <g>…..
Denise:
>> offer the same number of features as a hardware-based controller
SoftVTR, DiaQuest 232, and the Pyros Partnership ADI driver all offer the
same features when inside of 3D Studio. No more, no less. All we can do is
to give you the features that 3D Studio allows you to.
DiaQuest and SoftVTR support more tape decks, ours supports the Sony
EVO-9650 and Sony Laser Disks only. That's why they can charge twice as
much as we do, they have a lot of R&D to pay back, and believe me, it is
difficult to support many different decks well. They deserve what they get.
The advantage you get with a hardware controller would be a sync generator,
but you can also pull that off your framebuffer or tape deck, or get a house
sync unit.
Greg Pyros
>> what do I need?
Steve
The EVO-9650 works well (for Hi-8). A good compliment for that device would be
a Targa+64 ($2,195) or an Illuminator Pro ($2,495-$3,695) and the frame buffer
.. SoftVTR ($1000) for the animation controller. I've got customers used these
combinations with good success.
Ang
Angelo,
As a dealer, you might want to refrain from using anything other than list
prices when quoting $ on the forum. The Targa+ 64, for instance, lists for
$2495. Please use EMAIL for any other such "disinformation".
Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
Kevin,
As in discussions we have had before, I agree that quoting other than list
price is wrong. I simply made a "typo" and had no intension of quoting less
than list. I don't have the message, but I believe my wording was something
like .. 'The Targa+64 is ….' not you can "find it for ….".
I'm only human ya'know …
Ang
PMJI, Angelo, but I am curious about SoftVTR – that was presented as an option
when I was going through the process of selecting my equipment a few months
ago, too. At the time, though, I think it was relatively new and I was more
inclined to go with a "sure thing" with the hardware option.
Does SoftVTR offer the same features as a hardware-type controller, or is it
more/less versatile? I am curious to hear about the comparisons between it and
a hardware-based controller. Any out there who have had experience with both?
>> same options
Denise,
Some other hardware cards have other features like synch generators that,
depending on your situation, may or maynot be very useful. Also, there are no
software only controllers for parralel controlled VTR's (older decks).
My current rule of thumb is that go to hardware control for older parallel
decks and software for the newer 422, 232 decks. That's assuming that you are
only interested in animation control. If you are going into video production
as well, then the question is not so simple. If that is an option, the sync
geneator of the Diaquest product or going with a V-LAN system has appeal (V-LAN
is a video local area network which is based on packet communications much like
a computer LAN is. A V-LAN ADI driver ships with 3DS).
I'd try to find a 3DS dealer who can help'ya configure a system that's right
for you now and in the future. Some of the dealers on the forum are in a list
I compiled a while ago called DEALER.LST (or .DOC or .TXT). There might be one
close by.
Ang
Thanks for the comments on Hi-8. I used it once for a regular video edit
session (live video, not graphics) and it worked fine, no dropouts. Maybe the
dropout problem is with the particular brand used (?).
There are three Tips and Tricks books available right now. I assume you are in
the US, so you can order from Pyros Partnership (714) 833-0334 or Opamp books
(800) 468-4322. I recommend Pyros because Greg Pyros is a faithful, helpful
ASOFT frequent flyer. The retail on the books is $129.95 for the set of three.
When you call they will give you details.
Michele
Michele:
>> I recommend Pyros because Greg Pyros is a faithful, helpful ASOFT
>> frequent flyer.
There you go with that flattery again! Thanks for the plug!
Greg
I'll be ordering the books.
As for Hi-8: it's funny, I'm a big fan of it for aquisition, but because of
my target audience I have to think S-VHS/VHS, so I set up my suite
that way. Really can't start over, I don't think, although I'm tempted to
get the 9650 just for my animations (which, being original footage, have
to be edited down anyway with sounds, etc. as people have pointed
out here). My only problem with that is that then I have to get a frame
buffer as well — ah, the problems with life — and I HATE to think of
the hardware/software conflicts I'll run into putting that into my base.
Mike,
PMJI, but if you are interested in a frame buffer I have a Targa+ 16/32 I would
like to sell. It is brand new – hasn't even been registered. Only used two or
three times. I would like to get around $1200 for it. I also have two cables
for it I made to go from Dsub to RCA. If interested leave me a message.
Dave Mennenoh