CompuServe Thread

print job

12 messages in this thread
#75375From: Conrad StolzeJan 10, 1994 8:34 PM
How's the Car doing buddy?<BG> >>This is a small run of prints… How small, as this could affect you decision dramatically! Offset printing is ALWAYS your best bet for quality and versatility, but the start-up charges make it somewhat impractical for quantities under 1000. I will assume that you are talking less than 1000, and proceed from there. >>I am ignorant as to the resolution or aspect ration needed for hi quality print. Most (if not all) magazines are printed at an "effective" resolution of 150 DPI. I say "effective", because the printing world deals with Lines Per Inch (LPI), and line screen values. I don't have the space (or knowledge) to explain the differences in detail, but if you assume 150 dots per inch you should be set. Thus, you could figure resolution as a function of… Horizontal Resolution = (desired printed image width * 150) Vertical Resolution = (desired printed image height * 150) Thus, if your desired image size was 3" x 2", I would render a 450 x 300 file. Believe it or not, that's all the res you need! We frequently print 1280 x 960 image files at 11" x 8 1/2" (a little over 110 DPI) on our Cannon CLC550's and they look great. Aspect ratio is a function of the image resolution and the best explanation I have ever seen was published here a couple days back. Since you are a regular "forumite" I'll assume you have it. >>I understand that photographic or Dye Sub may crack when folded. YEP, it's due to the thickness and "facing" that exists on these media. Your best bet would be a 70lb white paper, or an 80lb white enamel. Both papers are opaque, and the enamel has a glossy appearance. >>I think perhaps a paintjet or bubble jet would work. I would like to disagree, but only YOU can be the judge of the quality you are after. I know you are out in the "sticks" <BG>, but do you have antone close to you with a Canon Color Laser Copier (CLC) 500 or 550 with the EFI Fiery RIP. If so, they can print anything you can get to postscript files. Do the layout in Pagemaker (or other) and print it to the standard Windows QMS Colorscript 100 driver (I Know I am assuming alot!) If you need furthur help, call me at the office tomorrow (you still have my number don't you?) Polishing my typing skills <BG>, PS If you need the help, our Color Graphics department could help!
#75488From: Brad Holtz [CAD Rating GJan 11, 1994 9:38 AM
Chuck, I'm not sure, but I think you're waaay off base with the 150dpi number. Check out old issues of Aldus magazine for details on relating Lines per Inch to DPI. In my experience, 150 line screen is equivalent to 1200dpi. –Brad Holtz Publisher, "The CAD Rating Guide"
#75646From: Conrad StolzeJan 11, 1994 9:46 PM
Brad, Point well taken (and I can see by your sign that you have experience in this area). I didn't try to draw a correlation between the two, and admitted that I didn't have the knowledge (read "manuals" since I do my CIS work at home <BG>). Your figures for LPI are absolutely correct, but our experiences here at City Blue Print have shown that you don't need THAT much resolution in the IMAGE that you are going to be incorporating! The DTP package used will produce the line screens appropriately for your printer, interpolating them from the initial image. If you translated the numbers "straight across", an 11" x 17" image printed on a 150 LPI device would equate to a desired image resolution of 13,970 x 21,590!! Before you do the math, I used 1270 DPI as that is the resolution of an AGFA 9000 at 150 LPI line screen. Yet our experiences have shown that a properly used 1280 x 960 "pixel resolution" image will produce a beautiful 11×17! Do the math on that one and you will notice that the original image has a CORRESPONDING resolution of only 75 DPI. It is the DTP software that makes the difference. Well if it's not apparent, I am having difficulties explaining the technical issues involved (gee, so much for the "no manual" excuse <BG>!!!!!!), but I will "stand by" my formula for calculating the desired image resolution (or "lean by" as the case may be!) Did I explain myself? Chuck (knowing what I want to say, but having difficulty saying it) Mies
#75753From: Brad Holtz [CAD Rating GJan 12, 1994 9:45 AM
Chuck, Yes, you did explain yourself. I just happen to dissagree. Yes, the quality and capability of the DTP system does make a huge difference in the final output. Yes, 1280×1024 24bit images do look good at 8.5×11. But you can *DEFINITELY* tell the difference between 1280×1024 and 4000×3000 at the same size, no matter how good the DTP is. Just for reference, a good 35mm slide has been compared to 8000×6000 (aprox.) resolution. Many major magazines won't even use 35mm stock for large size reporduction. –Brad Holtz, Publisher, "The CAD Rating Guide" ps. I do *not* consider myself an expert in this area. "The CAD Rating Guide" does not contain large color images. I do however have experience in blowing up color 35mm slides for printing 6×9 size for printing in black and white. The results are marginally acceptable. 2-1/4" format is greatly preferred.
#75854From: Conrad StolzeJan 12, 1994 7:52 PM
Brad, Well, I'm glad that I explained myself <G>, and I cannot argue your points either. I agree that a 4000 x 3000 image will look better than a 1280 x 960 resolution image at 8 1/2" x 11", but how much better? Is the increase in quality worth the tradeoff in rendering time (and there will be a SIGNIFICANT tradeoff). That will be up to the individual user I guess. Thanks for the input on what you Magazine uses, as it is always helpful to remove your head from the sand for a while and peek around! <BG> Thanks for the "spirited" dialogue, Chuck
#75677From: James M. MurphyJan 11, 1994 10:46 PM
Brad, I'd be interested in a clarification of this. I think it would benifit all of us if we had a detailed description of what it takes to properly setup 3D Studio for output to Print Media. I know I've followed several different threads on this subject and I am now somewhat confused. For example what would it take to setup 3D Studio to output to "Magazine Quality" Print = Hard Copy at: 8 1/2" x 11" 11" x 17" 17" x 22" You get the idea. I'm not even sure that these are "legal" print sizes when it comes to this type of thing. I guess to be practical I'd like to know what type of file I would have to provide a Service shop with to get a High Quality Glossy Print say at 11" x 17" ? Thanks in advance for any light you may be able to shed on this subject and excuse me while I go look for some of my old Aldus Magazines.<g> Murph'
#75754From: Brad Holtz [CAD Rating GJan 12, 1994 9:45 AM
Murph, I am not an expert in this area. Why don't you ask someone in the ALDUS forum to pop over here and respond? –Brad Holtz Publisher, "The CAD Rating Guide"
#76061From: James M. MurphyJan 13, 1994 12:57 PM
Sound's like a plan <g> . Murph'
#75886From: merlin farmerJan 12, 1994 10:00 PM
Chuck, thanks a bunch for the info. I will look for the messages pertainingto the printing. I have not been on here in a while, saving money for either a new car or R3, whichever comes first. I just found out that I will be able to borrow a five year old HP Paintjet tommarrow. Will get first look at one of those, only 180 dpi but your message makes me feel better. The client decided to go cheap on me. His audio tape is a freebe demo give away and he refuses to spend money on good printing. (Guess I got all of it (g)). Anyway, if the HP Paintjet works with the RHPADI driver supplied with r2.01a then we'll do the masters on the HP and then run the duplicates on a color copier. Thanks again for the help, I have the formulas tucked away. Gee, it seems to be rather obscure information when it comes to printing images. Merlin G. Farmer Crystal Cave Animagix
#75991From: Conrad StolzeJan 13, 1994 8:27 AM
Merlin, As you can tell from the thread, there seems to be a difference of opinion on what constitutes a "good" image. Kinda that "beauty is in the eyes…." philosophy. One work of caution though, watch out using a RHPADI driver. You have no image control other than 3ds lights, so you might find it a little frustrating. Do you have a DOS or Windows image editing package you can print out of? If not, take a look at Paint Shop Pro in the Windows Shareware forum. It is shareware, offers basic image editing control, reads Targa files, and would offer you the ability to "lighten/darken, or color correct" your image based on the painjet's gamma. Chuck PS You don't need a car, so save that money for 3DS3! <BG>
#76559From: merlin farmerJan 15, 1994 8:07 PM
Chuck, I DL'd the Paint Shop Pro program of which you spoke of, very nice program. As for printing, the guy with the HP never showed up so we had just the cover and the first liner printed at a local outfit that uses a MAC and a color lazer. Couldn't get the credits to come out legibly so we didn't run those. As far as the quality of these printers, the HP and the BJ600, I have never seen any output from either so I do not know what they look like. Merlin
#76575From: Conrad StolzeJan 15, 1994 11:58 PM
Merlin, Glad to see you found one of my "hidden gems", PSP. I have PhotoShop (PC and MAC), PhotoStyler, Picture Publisher, and Photo Finish available to me at work, and there are alot of things that I will grab Paint Shop Pro for!!!! Especially Windows Screen captures, it is top notch there! Chuck