#Amiga UNIX
39 messages in this thread
I just ordered the latest (and last) version of the unlimited user license
Amiga UNIX (hey, for $120 it'll be a nice toy to play with). What comes with
it? C compiler? Decent manuals? Or do I just get a tape? What?
C compiler is on the tape along with TCP/IP, UUCP, X, etc. Manuals are
pretty useless (pretty and written for a rank beginner).
Its pretty lousy as a toy. It really wants to be run 24hours a day on its
own machine with a large HD.
—
Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
Since you seem to know about this, I hope you won't mind me jumping in
with a few questions.
Is this a System V Unix ?
Will it work with a 68030EC or does it need the memory manager ?
How large a hard disc would you recommend for a non-networked developement
system ?
Peter Wade
Autopiloting from London, England
Yes.
No, yes.
A development system wants huge disk. More than a gig. The more the
merrier. A full OS install takes 250megs.
—
Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
Thanks for the info. It sounds like too much for my 500+ and GVP. If I
want Unix at home I'll just have to stick to Minix and shuffling floppy
discs.
Peter Wade
Autopiloting from London, England
Dale,
Thanks for the info.
Why would an OS "want to be run 24hours a day"? Does it get cranky if it
doesn't? That's rather like saying a lawn mower wants to cut grass 24 hours a
day … both are inanimate and have no wants or desires.
What classifies as a toy is very subjective, no?
It wants to be run 24hrs because shutting the thing down and bringing it
up takes a long time. You can't just turn it off without potentially
damaging the disk and certainly causing a very long startup on the next
book (fsck). Besides, what is most useful about Unix is what it does
automatically and on a network.
Yeah, "toy" is very subjective.
—
Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
Spoken like an employee who doesn't pay the electric bills. :-0
I get the electric bills.
Also, at some point, the wear on a computer from powering up and down
(quite stressful electrically and thermally) costs more to the environent
than the electricity to just leave it on. Unfortunately, manufacturing
computer stuff is one of the least environementally sound things that we
(humans) do. All those yucky solvents in chip manufacturing and board
production. Drives, for example, may last twice as long if they are on
24hrs as if they are regularly power-cycled (some warranties even reflect
this now). So, contrary to intuition, for many people it may be more
environmentally sound to leave the machines on 24hrs/day.
—
Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
I thought it was kind of silly to justify leaving a computer on 24 hours
because it takes several minutes to boot… I know you pay the electric bills.
🙂 As for power-cycling and thermal cycling, how does the MBTF really balance
against the expected useful life of the computer? It may not matter in some
situations. Resale values are bad enough that no one cares if the computer was
cycled or not.
Not just that it takes several minutes to boot — also that most of the
things that an Amix box are useful for are a heck of a lot simpler that
way. Mail and NFS, for example. Big pain in the butt to walk into the
other room and turn on a machine and wait any time I want to get mail or a
file.
Even if the machine stops being useful to you and has little resale value,
there are still plenty of people it would be useful to for many years to
come. People in schools, perhaps, or in third-world nations for certain.
There are plenty of programs to which you can sent your "ancient"
technology for recycling.
—
Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
You obviously don't live in Florida! 24 hr operation invites a lightning zap!
It has killed my A2000 once even with a surge protector and that is enough for
me
That's what IsoBars are for. If you keep good backups anyway… you get
a free new computer even if lightning strikes (up to $10,000).
Dale L. Larson Intangible Assets Manufacturing (info@iam.com)
"That's the best part about being crazy. You see things no one else can see."
I spent five years in Melbourne, Florida. Yes, I'm familiar with Florida
Flicker and Flash.
DJ
David:
I live in Florida (Fort Lauderdale), and I leave both my Amiga & my PC on
24 hours a day. So far I've never been hit by lightning, and I've been
doing this for at least 4 years or more! Of course it might just be that
you're more prone to lightening than I am, I live in a condo, what sort of
structure is your Amiga located in? Oh, and a good UPS also helps, I have
more brown-outs here than I do power interuptions.
// -Mike Schiller
\X/ AMIGA! On AutoPilot in sunny Fort Lauderdale
Mike, if you have a UPS you most probably don't need a surge protector, as
most UPSs today cover that end too.
DJ
My Sweet Amiga /-\/-\ As personable as Cindy,
\ — / As kicking as Arnold …
>> You can't just turn it off without potentially damaging the disk
Say what? How about some details on this. Are you saying that UNIX causes
hardware to be less reliable than other operating systems? What does software
have to do with hardware?
Steve,
Unix by design requires an orderly shutdown of the system, rather than
merely pulling the plug. The file-systems are "marked" by the shutdown
procedure so that they can be restarted safely/quicker when you boot the
system. Otherwise, the boot procedure will run (almost) the equivalent of
Disksalv on all of the file systems on startup.
If you simply turn off the machine without the shutdown, upon reboot
the system thinks it is restarting after a crash, and therefore assumes
that things are not necessarily in one piece, which is why it needs to
revalidate everything.
On systems where reliability is very desirable (i.e., multi-user
systems where file system problems can wreak real havoc), having this kind
of safeguards designed in can be quite desirable. However, it does have
its costs (as does most "protection" designs, like memory protection).
– BobR
(Motorola Inside!)
Bob,
Ok … that I know from playing quite a bit with an AT&T 3B1 for quite a while.
Where does Dale's "potentially damaging the disk" line come from? Sounds flakey
to me.
Not totally flakey. Unix systems tend to have lots of little tasks
running in the background at all times, and they can (and do) access the
disk whenever they want to, which means that powering down the system
without a clean shutdown can (relatively easily) catch one of those tasks
while it is writing to the disk. Just like the Amiga, losing power while
a disk write is occurring is an easy way to scramble the file system.
– BobR
(Motorola Inside!)
"Potentially damaging the disk" reads to me as if the OS will physically harm
the hardware. If what was meant is what you explained … powering down while
in the middle of a write will cause a software problem, well, that's rather
obvious isn't it and has nothing to do with UNIX.
So Dale, what is it? You saying that UNIX is detrimental to hardware?
BTW, that's an _UGLY_ picture of you Betty uploaded to AmigaArts <grin>
That wasn't me – it was Steve P. in a BobR suit. 🙂
– BobR
(Motorola Inside!)
Oh, suuuuuuure! Don't blame it on me! 😉 I left my BobR suit at home
that trip. 🙂 🙂
Steve,
I didn't think it flattered Bob very much, either – but it was the only
one I had!
Incidentally – I didn't have one of you at all, else you'd have been in
there, too.
—Betty
Betty,
Maybe I'll send you one you can scan.
BTW, the one of Bill Eastburn didn't get merged because something went wrong
with the upload … from his mouth down was offset to the right.
Thanks, Steve. I'd be glad to have it. And I'll try Bill again. The
picture was pretty nice. I'll check the file on my disk, and if it isn't
right, I'll re-scan it.
I have six or eight more, but I'm not sure I have the names right on all
of them. Maybe I could send them up and you, Bob, and Steve could help me
straighten them out? And there are a few others of whom I'm sure of the
names, but just didn't get them done in the first batch. Gee – we'll soon
have a regular gallery of CIS Amiga folks.
—Betty
Upload 'em … I'll take a look and identify who I can.
I'll see if I can identify people you aren't able to. Did we get a group
picture taken? I can't remember.
Betty,
What do you expect, asking me to pose halfway through my first cup of coffee
in the morning? And of course, it was following closely on the tail of a
rather long night! Ahhh, Devcons – sure miss 'em!
– BobR
Given another opportunity, Bob – I'd be happy to do another shot and
replace this one. Want to send me a better picture?
—Betty
Bob,
>>pose halfway through my first cup of coffee in the morning …
Hmmm, looked more like your 6th Bloody Mary <grinning and ducking>
-sja
That was part of the preceeding "rather long night", 'cept I didn't have
to disguise the booze with that red stuff. :->
– BobR
(Motorola Inside!)
I'm sorry. Damaging the data on the disk, not the mechanism itself.
You have to shutdown the system in software to flush all kinds of buffers,
etc. You can do it in an emergency in about 20 seconds, more like a
minute or two for a normal shutdown.
—
Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
If you want to play with Unix, you should really get Linux for a PC. 🙂 It's
even free, not $120, and it works, and there's hundreds of hackers developing
new toys for it.
John,
Yeah, but I want UNIX as opposed to Linux.
From whom did you order this?? I am interested myself, and don't
know of anyone selling the Amiga Unix software.
Is this Amiga Unix release 2.1, unlimited license???
-Jay Pedersen
Talk to your dealer (fast). CEI, a distributor, has a few packages left. After
they're gone, they're gone.
I believe I asked before, but, who did you order the
Amiga Unix 2.1 unlimited license from???
My dealer is out of business.
I contacted every dealer I found in Amiga World, only the
Software Hut had Unix, but they had the 2-user license.
Any help would be appreciated.
-Jay Pedersen