CompuServe Thread

#Feral Effect TBC

17 messages in this thread
#86409From: Jerry RockwellJul 17, 1994 8:36 AM
Has anyone used this new TBC from Feral. " The Feral Effect " It's advertised as being able to shrink video without degradation for over the shoulder stuff with the toaster. Price is quite a bit higher than TBCIV's etc. but that would be quite a feature for the toaster. Anyone using it ? Is it available through Mail Order Houses or just through Feral Industries ? Street Price ? Thanks, Rocky
#86413From: Gary KleinerJul 17, 1994 10:51 AM
Rocky, Although the Feral is probably way ahead in most regards, you can get a really good compression out of processors like the Panasonic digital mixers like the AVE5, AVE 7, etc. or Videonics MX-1 for less money. Regards, Gary
#86419From: Jerry RockwellJul 17, 1994 3:37 PM
Gary, Do I assume correctly that all of these shrink live video to be displayed over the shoulder and without much loss ? Also I am in need of another TBC anyway. I've been doing pseudo a/b rolls enough. Rocky
#86427From: Gary KleinerJul 17, 1994 6:11 PM
Rocky, Yes, they do quite nicely…WAY better than the toaster. BTW, I have a DPS TBC I for sale. Not fancy, but will give you another video input. $295. Regards, Gary
#86439From: Michael MiloffJul 17, 1994 10:42 PM
Gary or Anyone who knows about Feral, Are you able to get rid of the pixelization effects of Toaster for various DVE's by using the Feral. Thanks in advance, Michael
#86451From: Gary KleinerJul 18, 1994 11:12 AM
No, the Feral has its own image processing though. Gary
#86461From: Michael MiloffJul 18, 1994 1:24 PM
Gary, Thanks. I am wonder if you can give me a more detailed response if I ask you a clearer question. So here goes..I am relatively new to the Amiga world, having taken the dive and hired somebody, bought a Toaster/4000 set up, ordered a Flyer and got a couple of my day business type-clients to buy a couple of projects. In reviewing some of the product for one client, I noticed a tremendous amount of Pixellization on some toaster effects, especially when they are reduced in size or slowed down. I think one example would be flying an image of a face. I am interested in finding out if there is any way in reducing the pixellization. Will the feral board do it? Will Flyer do it? Will anything else do it? Or does one work around the effects (whip them quickly by) or go into an editing suite to do the final work at the end of the project. I also envisage a scenario where I want to have a talking head in a quarter of the screen while relevant images and bullet points are occupying the rest of the screen. Same questions? Thanks in advance. Michael
#86472From: Frank VanellaJul 18, 1994 4:23 PM
Michael, Excuse me for jumping in here on this thread, but I hopefully can answer your questions. 1. The Feral effect TBC has a few of it's own effects, the one of primary interest is the squeeze for over-the-shoulder type supers. As of now, none of Feral's effects manipulate the video in any fashion that offers perspective or flips on axis such as many of the more impressive of Toaster's DVE moves. Feral's squeezed output is displayed over a black screen which allows you to use Toaster's luminance key to display it over other video or stills. For the bullet points scenerio you described the Feral unit would be ideal. The samples of video I have seen done with the Feral are more than good enough for over-the-shoulder type work. 2. There are no upgrades for the Toaster's DVE to remove or improve the pixelization you spoke of. It's a hardware limitation of the Toaster's video processing chips. Flyer utilizes the Toaster as a switcher, and no announcement has been made with respect to a firmware upgrade to improve Toaster's DVE pixelization. What I have done is to use a sperate DVE to accomodate these moves and use the luminance keyer to bring them into Toaster. One interesting option is to import your video into Lightwave and use it to render your DVE moves. The results are very clean and smooth but take a long time. There is a package called Hollywood FX that does all the front-end work for you. The DVE moves are modeled after Abekas and Pinnacle, are quite impressive although not "real time". It has excellent support for the PAR board. If you are going to map moving video images onto Lightwave objects you will need the TBC IV/PAR combination and a lot of spare time for renderring. If you are already commited to your Toaster platform and you are serious about upgrading the DVE (without using the Lightwave solution) you might want to consider a dedicated DVE unit. I know of a few pro units available (including one of my own, a JAZZ Ensemble). Email me if you would like more info or check the BP (Broadcast Professional) forum under classifieds. Frank
#86475From: Stephen BaileyJul 18, 1994 5:09 PM
PMFJI, But if I were you I'd try to do any ADO/compositing in Lightwave, if you need cleaner edges. I just completed a 12-second, multi-layered ADO sequence involving headlines floating over PAR-digitized video frames. Worked great, looked like the pros, and rendered overnight. Beats paying $?00.00 per hour at a post house. Hell, consider yourself the post house. Just my .02. Now, back to work <grin>. S.G. Bailey Chicago
#86486From: JERRY HATCHETTJul 18, 1994 8:22 PM
Michael, Lots of good advice here from the other guys; one more way to accomplish the nice, clean talking head is to 'shoot for it'. I've used this method several times myself. Just shoot the talking head in the upper (right or left) corner, then design your graphic screen with a black or white square in the appropriate place, and use the Toaster's luminance keyer. Pretty cheesy approach, but works… Jerry
#86491From: Michael MiloffJul 18, 1994 9:23 PM
Dear Jerry Hatchett, Stephen Bailey, Frank Vanella, Thanks a lot for your advice. I really appreciate it as I move into production on my first two projects, with a couple more in the wings, and a Flyer to come in September. But I'm just the boss, not the technical guy, and my colleague, Russ Spencer (should he pop up on the Boards) is at SigGraph. So, I am going to get your responses to him, as he will be better able to fully digest them. At that point, I may be back with more specific questions. Thanks again. Michael Miloff ..from Toronto way…
#86492From: Gary KleinerJul 18, 1994 9:45 PM
Michael, 'Looks like the subject is pretty well covered here. When the flyer is available, you won't need PAR/TBCIV to capture video as a sequence of files, [.Regards, Gary
#86522From: Frank VanellaJul 19, 1994 10:28 AM
Gary, You WILL need some sort of TBC to stabalize the taped video however. It doesn't need to be a TBCIV, but since many people already have that model it's being mentioned quite frequently as THE unit to have. Frank
#86524From: Arnie CachelinJul 19, 1994 10:31 AM
If you shoot for the over-the-shoulder, you should use the positionable square wipe to cleanly reveal the talking head, better than the luma key.
#86585From: JERRY HATCHETTJul 20, 1994 12:42 AM
Aki, << If you shoot for the over-the-shoulder, you should use the positionable square wipe to cleanly reveal the talking head, better than the luma key. >> You are correct. Jerry
#86558From: John BunnellJul 19, 1994 9:09 PM
Michael, I have one that I have had for about a month. Save your money. Use lightwave and a PAR to do picture in picture. Basically that is all you are going to be able to do with it. My boss thought it was a great idea to get it and I have been using LW instead to do stills flying on and off and she thinks it is the Feral. You can program it somewhat to do that but LW allows me to do much more. You can't put shadows behind your "box" or a colored frame around it. It does do away with the pixelization if you just want the picture in picture and the quality of the picture is excellent quality. If you do news type work it would be a good investment but if you did that type of work you probably would be working on a different platform. IMHO, jmb
#86574From: Michael MiloffJul 19, 1994 11:03 PM
John, Thanks for the feedback. I plan on getting a Flyer which probably means I won't get a PAR. You might want to look at past comments from some others on this thread as there were a number of suggestions, including the use of special effects DVE equipment. Michael