#PAR or FAST
18 messages in this thread
Hi,
I am in need to render the next jobs to video. I am sure, here are some gently
people, who can tell me, which is the better system:
FAST SCREEN MASHINE and the DPR
or
PAR ?
Any hints are welcome
Claus
Depends on what your intended purpose is.
I have the Fast VM but not the DPR. I have the PAR
DPR is primarily a non linear editor for video that can do low resolution
single frame animation output in real time. Res: 640×480. Compression ratio
will be lower (better) than the PAR. Cost is 3-4 times the PAR. The DPR will
integrate with your VM better than the PAR.
The Par is primarily an animation recorder/playback that can do some non-linear
editing. Resolution is 752×480 with compression ratios at 9:1. Non-linear
editing will require additional software and a sound board. The PAR will output
YUV, Y/C, and C. Video input requires a TBC IV and is limited to Y/C and C. It
comes with DOS video based software and a windows based software for video and
sound. The windows software is new and is called PAR-VCR. Works just like a
VCR for playback and recording picture and sound. I've been using the PAR for
a year and a half now and love it for animation and video special effects like
ping pong, slomo, timelapsed, and speed of operation as it will work from
within 3DS's network renderer. The NLE functions are just a toy, not for the
serious NLE installation. Probably the PVR will be more suited for the NLE
application with beefier software coupled with deck control, etc. not yet on
the market.
Another way to render to video is the Matrox Animation Xpress, which is a
digital animation recorder. It eliminates time-consuming frame-by-frame
recording by playing back broadcast-quality animations directly from hard disk
in real time.
If you would like more information on the product you can call our sales
department at 1-800-361-4903 or (514) 685-2630, or I can mail you a brochure if
you e-mail me your address.
Regards,
Lori Smordin[Matrox]
Claus,
The PVR is shipping in limited quanities at this time. PCI based with Fast SCSI
2 interface. We just finished building one machine and Murph' (James Murphy &
Associates 414-435-7345) installed the PVR and software. Give him a call he's a
dealer for the Matrox too.
Good Luck, Matt
>The PVR is shipping in limited quanities at this time. PCI based with Fast
SCSI 2 interface.<
What about the capture board? How does the capture board connect to the PVR? Is
it a ribbon cable? Does it matter what side the capture card is installed with
regards to the PVR?
Any news on the PCI, 8 channel, 16 bit audio card they mention in the new PVR
ads? It sounds like the SunRize board that was available for the Amiga. If so
it is probably $1500.
Claus,
Thought I would add my 2 cents in. I have had both systems. Started
with the PAR card and now have upgraded my VM to the VM with the DPR. The Par
card will only work with a very few IDE hard disks and you can only use 2 of
them total. The DPR will work with SCSI and will be able to daisy chain up to
7 HD's of bigger sizes.
The output is no contest. Par output is about 10 to 1 compression best
and looks like SVHS quality. DPR is 3 to 1 and looks far superior. Par will
capture directly to its hard disk without creating image files first. DPR is a
slower process and will have to have image files to convert to be able to play
out real time. Par has a much better system for this.
DPR works flawlessly with the VM Studio as a analog-non linear option.
Which includes audio files. PAR is only video capture animation playback, no
audio. IF you want to work with other non-linear editing packages like Adobe
Premier. Both work the same except PAR will interface nicely with Razer Pro.
I never used this one but heard by reviews it is ok, not great. Maybe great
with the Par but by itself, Premier and Video Action Pro are better, so saids
the reviews.
AFter having both, I would rather have the DPR (even though it costs
more it is one of those things you get what you pay for). The new PVR card
from DPS is suppose to be better quality, works with Razer PRo and supposely
with Adobe PRemier, and sound files, but you better have a computer with two
open PCI slots (kinda rare these days) with no fan blockage of the slots.
All in all, DPR for me is a much better way to go.
RAndy
Creative Video PRoductions
I dont know if you mean the PAR of the new PVR if you
are talking the PAR then no contest the FAST machine is
better except in price. The new PVR on the other had can transmit
6 MB per second. (I didnt believe it but its true) uses Fast SCSI 2
drives, can have 7 drives and works great. I saw it three days ago
WOW.. Cuts only editing is painless. For nonlinear you only
render the transitions. Its cool. Quality, wow the compression
ratio is down around 4 to 1. It has a dynamic Q when recording.
No more messing around with figureing out the best recording
factors. Razor Pro will be your only editor though. Adobe just
isnt integrated enough. You need real time scrap and preview
that will work with Razor and not Adobe.
Just wanted to jump in here as a dual owner too.
Comparing the PAR to a DPR is like comparing a truck to a car. Which is
better? Depends whether you're doing animation output or NLE video. The truck
is better at hauling cargo whereas the car is better at hauling people. The
PAR does a much better job at animation than the DPR. The only issue here is
the DPR compression ratio is _typically_ done at 5-8 to one for animation real
time outut where as the PAR is going to be 9-10 to one. Both can do YUV
output. But the DPR is only 640 pixels horizontal resolution, it has a 5-8
pixel centerline shift to the right (a well documented bug) it also is not full
frame video except in the YUV mode. IT does not interface as well as the PAR
to 3DS network rendering and multi-channel rotoscoping is a real chore compared
to the PAR. On the other hand, doing NLE with the PAR is like toy compared to
the DPR. The DPR is one of the most flexible NLE systems in existence. IT is
one of the few that will work in hybrid fashion, It is upgradable with the
Alladin media printer for real time 3D animation effects. And the overall
quality of the FAST VM DPR system is kicking the butts off of Turbo Cube and
AVID for twice the money. Speaking of money, the cost of the PAR and the FAST
DPR from scratch is pretty far apart. If you have the budget for the DPR and
choose the PAR you will have lots of cash left over.
Don,
Have you seen the new perception???
I have, its way cool. A much better
implemetation for video capture etc.
But for all NLE you still have to have lots of muscle
to render transitions or effects.. Which makes NLE
still a little slow.
I know with the Fast the transition are built in
so they all are instant. I think thats a great combo..
Bob.
I haven't seen the perception yet but hope to at Siggraph. I still
think in a serious NLE installation these systems are mere toys
compared to the systems that are designed from the ground up as a
NLE. The other complaint I have is that these NLE systems are a
collection of third party everything to make the entire system work.
Really good NLE systems are all proprietary. Some even have their
own computer. That doesn't mean the PVR isn't good, it just lacks
the goodies that the big systems have. At any rate all this stuff
including the AVIDS are still in their infancy. Meanwhile, I stay in
the linear mode with my betacam SP decks and the FAST VM, at least
until the dust settles a bit. <G>
>>I stay in the linear mode with my betacam SP decks and the FAST VM, at
>>least until the dust settles a bit.
I dont balme you a bit..
>> The other complaint I have is that these NLE systems are a collection of
third >> party everything to make the entire system work.
To me this is a strength not a weakness. I allows people to stregthen
your system through inovation. I used to be in design Typesetting
useing proprietary equipment. You see where that went. I dont work
there any more, because there is no "there" anymore. Every one went
PostScript (Open architecture) with a non proprietary front ends..
And our system after you learned how to use it was faster and
produced more and better Type. But times change. Bob..
>>To me this is a strength not a weakness.
For a business it's a hindrance. When I buy a NLE system the last
thing on my mind is tweaking, memory conflicts, hard drive
formatting, software configuration etc, etc. What I want to do is
start editing and deliver finished product that the customer is eager
to pay on. This is why I have been playing with my PAR and the sound
board and Premier as a toy. I have yet to rely on it as a tool in my
business since my linear editing is still much, much faster with EDL
on line suite.
>>When I buy a NLE system the last thing on my mind is tweaking, >>memory
conflicts, hard drive formatting, software configuration etc, >>etc.
Thats why you would hire out to have someone else preconfigure.
>>I have yet to rely on it as a tool in my business since my linear >>editing
is still much, much faster with EDL on line suite.
I dont disagree but someone else told me that non linear is
much faster than shuttleing decks. I am not sure myself.
>> What I want to do is start editing and deliver finished
>>product that the customer is eager to pay on.
Thats why I like pieces of stuff that I can glue together. Because
if its not in my first box of choice it is probably out there
somewhere and I can attach it. Not usually true in true turn key
systems.. Is it harder yes. Is it profitable ??? I thought
PostScript would die because in ad typography it could not and still
cannot do what custom front ends can do.. But people are out there
makeing money in spite of me.. Bob 🙂
>>Thats why you would hire out to have someone else preconfigure. Yeah right!
Wouldn't that be funny since I do this kind of thing as part of my consulting
profession for other video post houses in this area.
>>I dont disagree but someone else told me that non linear is
much faster than shuttleing decks. I am not sure myself.
Yes it is BUT, in business one must look at the total picture. ie.
How long will the project take from start to finish. While, I can
select scenes and cut them together faster than linear editing it
still takes additional time to digitize and then there is always
those fill shots from your library that you have to shuttle to find,
then digitize them and the rendering to view a transition is time
consuming too. This is why I'm not totally convinced that NLE is the
total answer. In the FAST VM you can work using a timeline which is
far supperior to an edit controller with edl. Then either use the DPR
or do it linear or a combination of both. Transitions are realtime
which is much faster than rendering.
From what I understand the products like Razor Pro renders each frame not just
the transitions. It's just that the transitions take longer. Now this is just
what I wanted… making video editing just like doing an animation rendering.
NOT! Maybe the PVR will solve this and the new razor pro will render real time
output. If that is so I'll take a second look. For now I still have a toy.
>>From what I understand the products like Razor Pro renders each frame not
>>just the transitions. It's just that the transitions take longer. Now this
is just >>what I wanted… making video editing just like doing an animation
rendering. >>NOT! Maybe the PVR will solve this and the new razor pro will
render real time >>output. If that is so I'll take a second look. For now I
still have a toy.
This was only true with the PAR. Its not true with perception. With the
perception you only have to render transitions and then you can
play all the clips back.. In other words cuts only has no render time at all.
I've seen it and its very cool. If you get the new Speed Razor and are on
a Dec Alpha Station you can render even the transitions in almost real time.
4 seconds per frame on their most complex effect.
This I have not seen but heard. The PVR is a much better conceptually useing
SCSI drives vs. IDE allows ofr much better picture quality.
Bob.. Soon to be owner of a new Perception..
Bob,
>> Soon to be owner of a new Perception.. <<
PMJI, but me too … my PVR is supposed to be arriving this week. What Hardrive
have you chosen? And what motherboard design are you going for. I don't have
either yet. I have PCI systems I could put the boardset in but I'd have to
remove the heatsink and do something fancy with cooling, since the case only
has 1 fan now.
Sounds like a nice system when compared to the PAR. Of course the DEC
Alpha and all the other requirements are pretty hefty. I was
wondering. Did you investigate other solutions to NLE or have you
just considered the PVR/razor/DEC because of the track record that
DPS had with the PAR. As an owner of a PAR I can say that I think
this innovation was a revolution in the animation industry. I don't
think anything you have told me about the PVR puts it in that class
in the NLE lines. Since I'm pondering this same issue although not
on an immediate time schedule as you I would be curious as to what
other NLE systems you considered and why they wern't acceptable.