#3ds5/nt and Alpha
24 messages in this thread
Will the next NT version of 3ds be optimized for a DEC Alpha. If not,
would there be any advantage to having a 233mhz NT Alpha box over a
133mhz pentium?
>> Will the next NT version of 3ds be optimized for a DEC Alpha. If
not, would there be any advantage to having a 233mhz NT Alpha box
over a 133mhz pentium? <<
it's not a case of being "optimized". 3ds would have to be "compiled"
for Alpha NT. There's no word on this yet. Maybe Adesk will talk
about it at Siggraph (and maybe not). I don't think there would be
any point getting an alpha without knowing this for sure.
Hey Martin!
<<it's not a case of being "optimized". 3ds would have to be "compiled">>
I think thats what I meant <g>. Ya with the pentiums getting faster and
faster there is probably no point.
Regards, Peter Kroko
We should know more about the NT release in a couple of weeks,
SIGGRAPH is the scheduled unveiling. There is a way to have the best
of both worlds but it has a price. DEC offers a new line of PC's
which you can have a dual processor motherboard configured with only
one Pentium processor to start. You would have options then to either
add another Pentium or swap the Pentium chip out for a single Alpha
chip. If you can hold out a couple of weeks a few questions will be
answered.
>> DEC offers a new line of PC's which you can have a dual processor
motherboard configured with only one Pentium processor to start. <<
I have a suspicion that if the alpha becomes a viable alternative (I
say "if" because I don't know if r5 will run on the alpha yet), it
might be possible to do a motherboard swap (from Pentium to Alpha)
for a similar or lesser price than buying a DEC machine with
daughter-board upgradeability. Last time I talked to DEC their prices
on alpha upgrades seemed outrageously high. This supposes that 3rd
party M/board manufacturers sell alpha based boards. I'm not sure if
they do. Anybody know?
Whatever happens it's going to be an interesting time comparing
benchmarks if we have so many new CPU choices. I'm still leaning
towards favouring Intel, because the P6 is on the horizon and the x86
software base is just so huge. Contemplating moving to a completely
new architecture is kindof scary.
>Whatever happens it's going to be an interesting time comparing
benchmarks if we have so many new CPU choices. I'm still leaning
towards favouring Intel, because the P6 is on the horizon and the x86
software base is just so huge. Contemplating moving to a completely
new architecture is kindof scary.<
I feel the same way, I'll probably stick with Intel. I don't see
Alpha or PowerPC making any inroads. The Alpha boxes are twice as
fast as a Pentium 90, but they cost twice as much. When the P6 comes
out at years end, the Alpha won't look as good. At least the Intel
boxes will be around $4K.
also, with all of my PC's I bought dual processor motherboards. For a
small price of a second CPU, I can get a 60-70% increase in
performance. That's cool.
>also, with all of my PC's I bought dual processor motherboards. For a small
price of a second CPU, I can get a 60-70% increase in performance. That's
cool.<
Thats right, I almost forgot about those. Intel is going to have dual and quad
P6 machines also.
Tim,
>> Intel is going to have dual and quad P6 machines also. <<
excellent. I maintain high hopes for Intel in the coming battle of the cpu's
<g>.
Martin
The DEC daughtercard swap is definitely a pricey proposal. I'm
anticipating the swap anyway as I have an XL566 which will probably
quadruple its rendering speed if 3DS NT can run on the Alpha chip.
There is at least one 3rd party vendor putting together Alpha boxes
for a few hundred less than DEC sells direct. Their name always
escapes me, Alpine maybe? I'll see what info I have lying around if
your interested. I do not recall anyone selling Alpha motherboards
except DEC, its worth a stop in one of their fora to find out.
This proliferation of chips from Intel is numbing me. In the past
year we've seen Pentium chips baby-step their way from
60mhz-66-90-100-120-133 next is 150 or is it P6, I'm dizzy.
>> Contemplating moving to a completely new architecture is kindof
scary. <<
I come from a predominantly DEC house, lots of VAXstations, Alphas
and a few XL's. Pricey stuff but built quite well. Catch you at
SIGGRAPH.
Bob,
it'd be interesting to hear who else is selling alpha systems/parts. I'm more
interested in just buying m/boards than whole systems, though.
I know SAG electronics sells custom systems. They have alpha 275's for around
$9k (64mb RAM, 3x cdrom, 4gb drive, #9 2mb PCI Wide, NT server, big case, no
monitor), and they do sell quad 275's, but there are no details.
Martin
Martin:
I have some brochures at work and I put a note on the DECPCI forum. I'll
share anything I find.
– Bob Ritger
Martin,
I looked into the Alpha machines a little in my original search. I'm not sure
if either of these place will sale just components, but they both do custom
systems. Also they both offer the Alpha 21064A, 21164 (266 Mhz) and 21164 (300
Mhz). The Alpha prices ranged from $9500 to $19,000 depending on the goodies
that came with them. FWIW, here they are.
Anatoly Pinchuk, (Media Group), 1217 North Laurel, Suite #3, Los Angeles, CA.
90046. Tel. 213 874 7830…800 357 6334. Fax 213 656 7323.
Scott Pincus (DevWare), 619 679 2826..Fax 619 679 2887.
Terry
Terry,
thanks for the info on the Alpha systems vendors. I'm filing it for future
reference.
Martin
Martin:
Some info for you on DEC sources, I got this from the DECPCI forum:
>> Call 800-DIGITAL and they'll give you a list. There are numerous
distributors for motherboards, and several manufacturers of complete systems
(Aspen and NekoTek are two of them.) <<
Aspen was the name I couldn't recall not Alpine, sorry for the confusion.
Buried somewhere I have the NekoTek catalog as well.
– Bob Ritger
Robert & Martin: I'm not dizzy here! I'm just sitting tight on my old DX-2
network for now. By early '96 I should be able to afford the Pentium 133 or
120. Anybody know whether INTEL ever came out with the elusive P24T ? I have
this antique EISA MB with 1 meg of cache and 64 megs of RAM that will top out
with this processor. I'd hate to scrap it and my SCSI II EISA board just to go
to real Pentium. Too many $$ invested in this power box to do that. I haven't
kept up with all the latest in this CPU war.
Don:
>> Anybody know whether INTEL ever came out with the elusive P24T ? <<
Yeah, its out there but the performance is nothing too startling – like a
Pentium 60 I think. The opinion I heard stated that a DX4 upgrade is a better
value. And I thought that ZIF socket was so important when I bought my 486-DX2
for home 🙁 This stuff changes so fast maybe the price for the P24T will
drop to a reasonable level and an upgrade might be worth it.
– Bob Ritger
Thanks.
Well, once again the technology explosion supports one of my economic
theories:
"NEVER BUY PROMISE OF TOMORROW'S TECHNOLOGY WITH TODAY'S DOLLARS. IT WILL
ALWAYS BE CHEAPER AND BETTER IF YOU WAIT UNTIL IT BECOMES TODAY'S TECHNOLOGY."
dlandis
Don,
>> NEVER BUY PROMISE OF TOMORROW'S TECHNOLOGY WITH TODAY'S DOLLARS <<
I agree generally, although I did buy dual Pentium motherboards, but the price
difference from single Pentium was nominal, IMHO, and the potential payoff
could be significant. I'm doing some tests to see if my regular Windows
applications gain much from the dual processor (2 cpu's installed) running NT.
I wouldn't have much use for alpha's today, but there are some people who do
have software to run on them – sounds like Bob's company does.
I just want the information for future reference.
Martin
While at Comdex in April, Intel announced p5-75 pricing for the end of the year
at $175 retail. They announced that this will be their entry level processor.
At that time pricing was ~$600, I believe. FWIW 486 MB's are now below $100.
PCI and pentium MB's are falling rapidly now too. They generally don't get
much below $100 (eg. 386 MB's if you can find them are still $75 ) so it seems
that the $250 to $300 price for MB + CPU is the magic number to pay and not get
stung in the falling price timeline. If you have to pay more you better be
able to justify the cost by what it earns back for your business.
Don,
>> Intel announced p5-75 pricing for the end of the year at $175 retail <<
great! If I find the 2nd cpu's useful at the end of the year, they should by
pretty cheap by then. I'm pretty sure I could justify an extra $300 or so, for
that 60-70% perfermance increase.
Don:
>> "NEVER BUY PROMISE OF TOMORROW'S TECHNOLOGY WITH TODAY'S DOLLARS. IT WILL
ALWAYS BE CHEAPER AND BETTER IF YOU WAIT UNTIL IT BECOMES TODAY'S TECHNOLOGY."
<<
Words of wisdom, could have saved me a few bucks a while ago. 🙁
– Bob Ritger
If the Yost Group was careful, it may just be a "simple" recompile to let it
all work native on the Alpha or MIPS for that matter. The port of InterChange
to Alpha and MIPS, for example, was only a matter of adding the extra targets
to the Visual C makefiles.
John
>> If the Yost Group was careful, it may just be a "simple" recompile to let it
all work native on the Alpha or MIPS for that matter <<
I'm confident the Yost chaps will do the right thing, whatever that is. They
haven't let me down yet.
Martin