CompuServe Thread

#Render Frames vs Fields

13 messages in this thread
#182175From: Tyler ColwellJul 26, 1995 10:25 AM
Hi Alan, Thanks for commenting. I guess I had a fundamental misunderstanding about field rendering. I was under the impression that rendering to fields simply split the image info from a frame into odd and even fields. I had no idea that it also interpolates the motion. This indeed would make a huge difference. Does the PAR handle field playback? thanks again, Tyler
#182190From: ALAN IGLESIASJul 26, 1995 10:56 AM
You're welcome, Tyler. The very first time someone mentioned fields to me, I had the exact same feeling. 60 actual fields of movement per second is actually quite a bit of motion data, especially when you consider that feature movies are only 24 fps. Of course, movies has the natural blurring and beauty of film (and an internal shutter to actually flash the 24 frames 48 times per second in the projector to mostly eliminate flicker). Yup, the PAR handles fields beautifully. It is one of the features that makes it such a nice little machine for the money. I hope you are pleased with your animations after you see them with field playback! -Alan
#182365From: MARTIN G FOSTERJul 26, 1995 8:43 PM
Tyler, PMJI, but I thought I'd comment on this. I've found much to my surprise that MetroLight Studios (the SGI side) where I work, doesn't tend to use field rendering as a matter of course for video work. They seem to prefer to use motion blur when a job calls for it, but that job would have to be bid specifically to include motion blur since it is so expensive (in render time). I'm not sure how to feel about this since it goes against the grain of what I've been doing for years – I always used field rendering automatically before. It might behove one to look at a scene and decide if it is really necessary before going ahead. One reason for avoiding frames is they are easy to retouch and view as stills. 'Course the ultimate quality would be field rendering, object motion blur AND camera motion blur, but be sure to have some good reading material handy when trying this on an average scene. Martin
#182394From: Jul 26, 1995 11:17 PM
Martin: >> They seem to prefer to use motion blur [rather than field rendering] when >> a job calls for it… Sounds like they are too used to film as opposed to video! Although the other possibility is that they are always ready to do a tape-to-film transfer, which will look better with blur than fields. Greg Pyros
#182409From: Paul LindJul 27, 1995 12:05 AM
We've found that most of our clients who are going to do anything to the shots before they air them, want everything rendered to frames not fields. After spending years rendering to fields, over the last year we've become more and more accustomed to utilizing nice motion and camera blurs instead. .02
#182484From: MARTIN G FOSTERJul 27, 1995 2:13 PM
Paul, >> clients who are going to do anything to the shots before they air them, want everything rendered to frames not fields << quite right. Although, video paint boxes are quite comfortable with fields, aren't they (Harry etc)? >> After spending years rendering to fields, over the last year we've become more and more accustomed to utilizing nice motion and camera blurs instead. << that's exactly the situation I'm facing, and now I have the Challenger XL to render on, I think I can handle it rendering-wise. It's kindof amusing how I've been "educated" in this respect over the past couple of months. My confusion resulted in a funny incident. When we did the Herbie Hancock video (which people will see at Siggraph) all the 3d Studio shots were rendered in fields, and all the SGI work was rendered in frames. I wonder if people will be able to tell them apart <g>. Martin
#182534From: Paul LindJul 27, 1995 8:32 PM
Paintboxes work fine with fields. I was taught many years ago to always use fields, it'll make things look smoother. But over the past year, I've just been amazed by the levels of shops that don't use fields. Of course my first response was GREAT! I'll save a boatload of time, then the realization of rendering great blurs came along. Same time frame, different end product. I'm always learning ……. it's what makes this job so much fun. Paul
#182543From: MARTIN G FOSTERJul 27, 1995 9:32 PM
Paul, >> But over the past year, I've just been amazed by the levels of shops that don't use fields. << I was talking to one of the old-timers and living legends at Siggraph, Jerry Weil. He's been around since in high-end CGI since the mid 80's and he said something that I had started to feel: that field rendering sometimes looks too smoooth and hence has too much of a CGI feel compared to film. It's certainly food for thought. Martin
#182548From: Paul LindJul 27, 1995 10:22 PM
>It's certainly food for thought. It's difficult for me to eat and think at the same time. 🙂 No, actually you may be onto a very good point. Isn't it funny how we're all striving to get rid of the CG look. Kinda ironic…. wouldn't you say? See you in a week! Paul
#182558From: MARTIN G FOSTERJul 27, 1995 11:51 PM
Paul, >> Isn't it funny how we're all striving to get rid of the CG look. Kinda ironic…. wouldn't you say? << too true! Once we have perfection we want to dirty it up a bit with reality <g>.
#182574From: Terry MillerJul 28, 1995 4:36 AM
Martin, PMJI, but reminds me of what went on in the MIDI arena a few years back. When I put that studio together working from front to back I had to laugh out loud when I stood back and looked at the big picture. I started with all the synths and sequencers and composition programs to time everything out and make it perfect. Then at the tail end there's a box to mess everything up again to give it the "human" touch. How's that for a loop? Terry
#182633From: MARTIN G FOSTERJul 28, 1995 1:59 PM
Terry, >> Then at the tail end there's a box to mess everything up again to give it the "human" touch. << very true. It's like adding film grain and film characteristics to video work. Video just doesn't have the rich look we love so much in film. It's just so clean and sharp somehow. Martin
#182479From: MARTIN G FOSTERJul 27, 1995 2:03 PM
Greg, >> Sounds like they are too used to film as opposed to video! << partly true, but I think video is probably as big a component with MetroLight as film. I think it's mainly for ease of manipulation. >> Although the other possibility is that they are always ready to do a tape-to-film transfer, which will look better with blur than fields. << possibly. I'm not too sure on that. Martin