#CBM layoffs
39 messages in this thread
Bad news: CBM laid off a number of people from the engineering/R&D staff
this week. Real bad move, and apparantly some really good people were let
go.
Does anyone have any details on who/why? (Although the why probably boils
down to low earnings… But laying off R&D people is NOT what you do when
earnings are down!)
Denny Atkin, Associate Editor
COMPUTE's Amiga Resource
Denny – dunno, altho someone on the unix.amiga internet group said that he
was told that the Amiga Unix department is now gone.
They did just hire someone for CDTV tho. If all this is true, then it
feels rather backwards to me… they should drop CDTV and concentrate on
the Amiga!
Durned strange. And I've been saying that Commodore was doing a great job
lately, too. Maybe some execs wanted a pay raise? <cruel, Kev>
PS: here's the message that was posted on comp.unix.amiga…
> Subject: What has C= done this time? 2 Aug 91 03:59
>
> I was informed today that the Amiga Unix group was canceled by
> Commodore two days ago (7/31/91).
> Anyone care to explain this? Just exactly what does this mean
> for the future of Amiga Unix?
Actually, with everyone from DEC to Apple laying off and restructuring
their businesses these days, I guess it's as good a time as any for
Commodore to work any desired changes, too.
Let's just hope that it turns out to be a good Christmas this year for
personal computer makers! – kev
After reading the last message I called Dave Miller at C=. He said that
Unix will be scaled back but not canceled. Support for Unix will be
continued and release 2.0will ship as scheduled.
Excellent! Thanks for the news… they hadn't answered that guy back on
the internet as of a few minutes ago (Friday nite), so your report will be
welcomed, I'm sure.
thx again! – kev
I don't get comp.unix.amiga, but a member of the Unix group recently told
me that everyone except himself was fired. (It also means that my network
feed from amix.commodore.com is likely to disappear!)
Picking through, here's what people (mostly from conversations with CBM)
have said…
Perhaps 15 people have either been laid off, relocated to other
departments, or resigned. This includes perhaps 8 of 9 Unix people, of
whom at least 2 stayed on in other capacities. So actual layoff numbers
aren't known, but are likely to be less than a dozen.
Major figures who are gone include the AmigaDOS 2.0 manager (Andy Finkel),
the VP of Marketing/Sales, and the Unix applications manager. We already
know that the CIS support person (Dave Minnich) is gone. A _rumor_ is that
the Amiga development people now report to the manager of PC products.
It's said that most changes were due to "completion of projects". Work on
Amiga Unix 2.0 is supposedly done, altho full ABI compliance will have to
wait for 2.1, which is still being worked on.
So what it sounds like to me, is simply that the Unix department has
finished what they were supposed to do (and on time… their mistake :-),
that perhaps AmigaOS 2.0 is done, and that a natural shift will take place
towards other areas (my own gut feeling is that CDTV is taking some
precedence). We'll have to wait and see, tho.
One new note: a CBM type popped up unofficially on the internet, and said
that there still were more AmigaDOS programmers at Commodore, than since
the very earliest years.
Apparently these are the true results of the layoffs (I hope)
1) Andy Finkel left for mysterious reasons. No one is even guessing whether
he was laid off, fired, or just plain left.
2) Of the 8 people in the Unix department (including 2 documentation people
and 1 manager), all but 3 programmers have been laid off and two of them
have been moved to AmigaDOS.
3) Ron Stanczyk left due to personal reasons.
Apparently there were a few others who were laid off (such as our
CI$ rep) but I don't know any details other than those I mentioned. Ron
Stanczyk's position will likely be replaced and he was not forced out.
— Ethan
Thanks for the update Ethan. Seems I was off by one person on the Unix
department count 🙂
There still seem to be plenty of AmigaDOS programmers, and no one's said
that any hardware types were let go, so it all doesn't sound too terrible.
Except strange about Andy Finkel, of course.
Hope those let go, find jobs again soon! – kev
Actually, there were 8 people in the Unix department, apparently.
The additional person who was missing in my prior post now works for
Commodore on a contractual basis.
— Ethan
A message on BIX last night said that Andy Finkel has moved over to work
with CDTV. No reasons or explanations were given, but at least Andy is
still with Commodore.
Betty
Doesn't sound too terrible???? Getting rid of all those folks in the UNIX
department will come back to haunt them.
Steve
Steve,
The loss (reduction) of the UNIX staff is terrible news and absolutely
consistent with CBM actions of the past and their general business
philosophy.
Amiga UNIX is done so the staff is desimated. Done? How the heck is it
done? What does that mean. If SVR4 is now ported to the machine, that's
just the beginning! I guess when SUN got UNIX working on their RISC
architecture they were done. Right!
I really thought that the Amiga was going somewhere with its UNIX port. No
longer.
If you were a buyer or user of workstations (and I mean a company with
money to spend) would you buy a machine from a manufacturer who had one
person in the Unix development department? Nope. You'ld react to the Amiga
as the vast majority of the computer-using world has. Either with
indifference or some curiosity, but write it off with, "Hmm, interesting
machine, but look who's behind it. No thanks. Not buying today."
If CBM were really committed to the Unix community, they would make it
known that not only did the software work, but that there was a major
technical staff in constant development and support of the product.
Right. CDTV is where it's at, guys. I keep forgetting that this is the
company that developed a brilliant machine (C-64) then was content to live
on a crippled version of it as nothing more than a game machine.
Oh, well. What else is new?
You go your way . . . I'll go Maui
Rich 😉
Steve,
I meant that it wasn't too terrible for AmigaDOS users. I've never thought
that Unix sales would greatly affect what happens with normal Amigas.
But you're right that the news doesn't enhance Commodore's professional
reputation (their what!? :-). People who've invested time/money into Amiga
Unix systems or proposals have sure been vocal about their concerns on the
internet.
However, at least one university (VPI?) says that they feel slightly better
after making numerous recent phone calls to CBM. And some layoffs are
expected these days. So I think CBM's biggest goof was not immediately
engaging in damage control on the nets… and they _still_ haven't done so
now, a week later.
Just another indication (to me) that the low end market is still where
their top managerial heads are at. Does anyone really expect that to
change?
I don't. best – kev
David,
What is 'scheduled'?? I have several people who are getting DESPERATE
for SVr4.
Re: CBM Layoffs
Eeek!
Gary
– Mirror Image Prod. (416) 495-7469, via WHAP!
When CBM failed to show at SIGGRAPH last week, even tho they were confirmed
for the final vendor listings, the rumor was that a large portion of the
marketing staff was fired/laid-off/quit.
Odd. I didnt realize they had a marketing staff.
Geez… someone posted a rumor that Andy Finkel is gone, too. I don't
believe it. Say it ain't so, Andy! Anyone?
He wasn't as of a week or so ago when I talked to someone there.
Could Commodore be THAT stupid?
Ron
I hope not. I hope I'm very very wrong. Andy was around here just before
midnight of the last day of July, so I'm hoping he'll pop up again soon.
It must be a mistaken rumor.
It is true. Someone at CATS confirmed that Andy Finkel has left now
that 2.0 is done. He is the ONLY CATS employee to leave.
— Ethan
Ethan:
Did Andy leave, or was he thrown out? (big difference there!)
-Mike Schiller
In sunny Fort Lauderdale
Mike, I have heard NOTHING. I agree there is a big difference, but
I have no idea. Apparently though the AmigaDOS group is stronger than ever,
especially considering they just took on two of the programmers from the
Unix group.
My GUESS is that Commodore has been removing most middle management
in its cost-cutting efforts and Andy Finkel was a victim of that movement.
It is hard to blame Commodore for that, especially considering the tough
times, but Andy Finkel is kinda hard for most Amiga owners to accept.
— Ethan
Sounds like a good guess to me, Ethan. Everyone from IBM on down has been
cutting out management layers lately.
But CBM should be wise enough by now, to come around and post a synopsis of
what's happening, I'd think… I bet the small BBS's are going wacko over
rumors right now. Much better to keep people informed as soon as possible.
kev
Ethan: (and others interested)
The official word regarding Andy Finkel is that he was NOT fired, nor did
he quit, but rather now that the 2.0 development team is winding down that
he's moved over to the CDTV development team! 🙂 Looks like we'll be seeing
the product of Andy's work on yet another important project.
-Mike Schiller
In sunny Fort Lauderdale
Ethan,
I think the "tough times" is stretching it a bit. See their current
financial report (which shows a very substantial increase in earnings and a
18% increase in sales). The only "tough times" I can see is the fact that
85% of sales occured in the European market.
-sja
Excuse me, but where does one find a financial report for Commodore. While
I am asking, where would I find sales information about C= and other
computers? I tried Iquest and spent a lot of money real fast without
learning anything. I am trying to project potential Amiga sales based on
national sales figures. THANKS JL
James,
The easiest way to go GO NEWSGRID (it's not a surcharged service) and do a
search on Commodore.
The most accurate way is to buy one or two shares in the companies you are
interested in — that way you get the quarterly and annual reports to read
for yourself.
A projection of national sales on a product would most likely benefit most
from getting sales figures not from Commodore, but from other companies who
are marketing similar products. If you are interested in selling SCSI
interfaces, try and contact the companies that make them (CBM, GVP, Supra,
and others). Software is a bit more difficult — the majority of Amigas
are in Europe — specifically Germany. Making the software in English is
fine, but make sure that it works with PAL systems, also. This will not
only allow you to sell in the U.S., but Canada, the U.K., Australia and New
Zealand.
The figures I have seen for AMOS are 40,000 sales as of May 1991. This is
supposed to be VERY HIGH for the Amiga — one of the biggest selling, if
not THE biggest selling non-game software made. The original program was
ported from the ST version (STOS) and done in French. German and English
versions followed and now a compiler and 3D editor are available.
Getting exact sales figures from Commodore will be like pulling teeth
without using drugs first!
-Chas
Altho I also mentioned tough times, someone else has brought up a valid
point:
If it really was time to cut out some people, why not drop some of the many
AmigaDOS programmers instead of wiping out the Unix department?
Ah well. Latest news from internet is: one of the Unix guys dropped was
in documentation, the other a real developer. The two that stayed on in
the AmigaDOS department were network and DIG types… which sounds good.
Kevin,
Hmmm, the network guy I know is Ewout Walraven (sp). I hope he's still
around, he promised me some programming docs for this TCP/IP stuff C=
released. The docs for it are terrible (and they ass/u/me that you know all
about Unix, cuz they throw Unixy terms around like a baseball team throws
the ball).
Ethan/all,
I just got off the phone with Andy Finkel. He is now working with Gail
Wellington's CDTV group. If you call CBM and ask for him he may or may not
answer his phone as he is currently in the process of changing offices and
his new phone hasn't been hooked up yet (I lucked out in that he was in his
old office packing things for the trip upstairs).
I asked Andy if he would be at DevCon, he said he didn't know yet but hoped
he would be. He did say the speeches he was scheduled to make would
probably be made by his replacement.
-sja
Steve,
Good to hear that Andy Finkel is still at CBM!
thx – kev
Steve,
Boy, you certainly brightened up MY day.
Great News. Glad to hear it. Wonder what he'll be working on…
— Ethan