#Genlock/Fireckr24 ?
15 messages in this thread
I have a question about using a Firecracker24 with the external SuperGen.
I have a A3000 , Firecracker24 and SuperGen and have been using them for
about a year. I haven't yet figured out how to get external video
overlayed with the Firecracker24 image.
The SuperGen works fine (shows both Amiga graphics and FC24 output on the
composite video out) and the SuperGen will overlay Amiga Graphics with
external video if I connect the SG directly to the A3000 instead of having
it connecting it to the FC24 output (btw I use the FC24 in the overlay mode
connected to the Amiga's output using supplied cable).
I thought that any area on the FC24 that had 0,0,0 for the RGB values and
also had color0 on the Amiga graphics would show the external video, but I
can get it to work!
Anyone got the solution for me? Thanks in advance.
Terry Clayton
Terry,
The FC24 does not use 0,0,0 as the 'genlock' color. It uses a 25th bit,
which is supported only in Impulse's own file format. Currently the only
way to make use of it is in Imagine: if you make a "genlock" object, or
select the "genlock sky" option, save the render in Impulse file format,
then display it using the 'showfc' program provided with the FC24, the
appropriate areas will indeed be transparent. Note that the image MUST be
displayed with 'showfc' — the Imagine program itself can generate the
correct data, but if the image is displayed from within Imagine the areas
that are supposed to be transparent won't be.
Currently there is no paint program that I know of — including Light24
-that makes use of this bit.
Pete
Pete,
Thanks so much for the reply. I thought there must be something I was
missing. I will try what you said. I found a way to leave the FC24 in the
circuit and shut it "off" in software. You probably already know this, but
I found the "nofc" program on the distribution disk and at least I can use
standard amiga graphics and the SuperGen as if the FC24 was not in the
circuit.
You obviously are quite familiar with the Firecracker24. Are there other
"undocumented" things that I should know? How did you learn about the 25th
bit? I love Impulse's products (I also own IMAGINE), but the documentation
often leaves something to be desired.
BTW, do you own Imagemaster F/c from Black Belt Systems? I bought it
several months ago and just got the ver. 9.13 update. It has amazing
features and works beautifully with Firecracker.
Again, thanks for the info and talk to you later!
Terry
Terry,
Yes, I've gotten quite familiar with the Firecracker.
We've found some pretty outlandish uses for the Amiga in our own production
facility, and in the course of developing some of them I've gotten to know
the folks at Impulse reasonably well. The guy who designed the
Firecracker, (Mike DeMar [sp?]) — who's a real nice guy — explained the
use of the 25th bit in the Impulse file format, how it follows the
"genlock" characteristic in Imagine, and how it affects the "key" signal
coming out of the Firecracker. Few people actually use it, I guess; but we
use it all the time to generate animation mattes.
As to ImageMaster; yes, we have that too — and I do like it. Trouble is,
we have a SuperGen 2000-S in the video slot, so I can't use the overlay
mode with the Firecracker. The only way I can overlay the two is by piping
the Firecracker and the Amiga graphics into my production switcher,
overlaying them, and seeing the result in composite. Not real convenient
— and I REALLY wish the folks at Black Belt would use the Firecracker's
own internal capabilities to handle the entire display on the Firecracker
the way Impulse does with Light24. In the meantime, much as I like their
product, I can put it to only very limited use. (Are you listening, Ben
😉
Pete
Pete,
Thanks Pete. I've talked to Mike Demar and found the same nice
experience. I appreciate the info, and hope to exchange more of the same
in the future.
Talk to you later!
Terry
Hello, Does anyone know how the firecracker's output genlocked from an
A3000 through a SuperGen compares to the output from DCTV? I have DCTV and
am considering getting FC24 for single frame work – but there is no point
if after encoding the output is no better than DCTV. Your help is
appreciated! Thanks, Patrick, 72210,1702
Patrick,
I use the Firecracker in two different ways: genlocked into our production
switcher (in composite) and transcoded to Betacam component for
single-framing directly to a Beta-SP deck.
IMNSHO, the Firecracker is better than anything else out there for output
quality — there's no comparison between it and DCTV.
Remember that if you're working in composite, the quality of your encoder
is VERY important. The FC-24 puts out a pristine signal, but it's RGB —
and a cheap encoder will ruin it.
Pete
Pete, I understand that the FC 24's RGB output is very good and that the
quality of the encoded composite result is dependent on the encoder. What
I am trying to find out is how the output of the FC 24 encoded with a
SuperGen, (which I already have) compares to the output of the DCTV (which
I also have).
I am asking for a comparison between the two composite signals. I am not
currently in a position to replace my encoder and if the output of the FC
24 thru the SuperGen is not noticibly better than the output of the DCTV,
then I will wait to get the FC 24 until I can also get a better encoder. I
am in the classic position of needing to upgrade by system but unable to
simultaneously upgrade every component. I want to start with the things
that will make the biggest difference.
Thanks for the info Patrick
Patrick,
If you're using a standard, outboard SuperGen (the original one first made
by Progressive Image Technology), that's what I'm currently using to
genlock my FC-24 into our system.
Personally, I believe the FC-24 encoded via a SuperGen kicks DCTV's behind.
There are a number of reasons for this, including higher resolution (1024 x
482) and TRUE 24 bit color.
The only drawback to the SuperGen as an encoder is a small amount of
residual clock noise in the video signal — if it hasn't been a problem for
you with Amiga graphics, I don't think you'll notice it on your FC-24
output. It does show up on a scope (instead of black showing up as a fixed
horizontal line, it's a bunch of tiny peaks and valleys — if you notice
it, know that it's a design limitation of the SuperGen, not the FC24). But
as to the actual quality of the encoding — resolution, colorimetry, etc —
the SuperGen is fine.
Hope this helps!
Pete
Thanks Pete, This is what I suspected, but wanted to check before I
committed cash 🙂 Patrick
Patrick:
The FC24's output thru a SuperGen is MUCH better than a DCTV. The DCTV's
picture is basically a low rez image or something like that (see Ben
Williams text file describing the differences between DCTV & HAM-E in the
Black Belt Systems section of the Amiga Vendors forum). The FC24's output
is true high rez (or even higher if you use the 1024×482 mode).
If you're going to be doing lots of video work, you might consider looking
at GVP's IV24 board. I have one of these in my system as well, and it's
output is IMHO as nice or nicer than the output of the FC24, and it comes
with an encoder that allows it to output SVHS, and composite, or RGB. The
board can also grab video from either RGB, composite, or SVHS.
There's also a better encoder available for the IV24 GVP calls their
transcoding video interface unit. It can output all the above formats as
well as RGB, or betacam, YUV, MII, and possibly some others (I'm not
familiar with all the professional formats). They're about to announce
their new program Mirage that is similiar to ADPro or ImageMaster that
uses the IV24 for much of it's operation, as well as switcher sofware that
will do many things. The IV24 is much more expensive than the FC24, but it
does MUCH more than the FC24 alone does, and for video work is probably a
better choice. I have both in my system, as the FC24 does do some things
better than the IV24 (for one, it's a true framebuffer, once an image is
saved to the FC24 it will stay there until another image is saved to the
FC24, or a command is given it to clear it. The IV24 on the otherhand uses
it's memory in a different way, and once you've gone from displaying the
image back to whatever control panel (or WB) saved the image to the IV24,
it's gone (sort of the same as DCTV or Ham-E in this instance).
-Mike Schiller
On AutoPilot in sunny Fort Lauderdale
Mike,
One of the things I always liked about the FC24 was that you could stuff an
image into it, then go into an Amiga CG program (like Broadcast Titler II)
and super graphics over your 24-bit background.
The Amiga appears as two totally separate, independent sources on our
production switcher, for that very purpose.
Pete
Mike, Thanks for the FC24 & IV24 info. I have been considering a
multifunction board but have not decided yet. The FC24 is cheaper (less
features) but doesn't take up the video slot so I can decide later which
do-it-all board I need an still probably be able to use both. Thanks,
Patrick
what's your encoder of choice for the Firecracker? I haven't been able to
get one that's moderately priced to work at all (the MiniGen) and neither
could Impulse (who generously tried to help me with it). I'd love to get a
modest priced encoder for the FC24. Thanks.
Daniel:
I've used a supergen on my FC24, a digifex encoder, and an A520. If all
you want is encoding (don't need any sort of genlocking capability) you
might want to try the A520, as I've found it to be very good. (and
according to my dealer it's signal was very clean on a vectorscope too)
// -Mike Schiller
\X/ AMIGA! On AutoPilot in sunny Fort Lauderdale