CompuServe Thread

#Need MIDI advice/keybds

20 messages in this thread
#21258From: Tim ByersAug 13, 1992 9:20 PM
Hi: I'm a novice to music and the Amiga but want to get into midi. Any of you know anything about the following keyboards? Casio CZ101? Casiotone MT-240? Yamaha DX-100? Yamaha ENT-10? Any other beginner advice would be helpful. Thanks!
#21260From: Chris N.JulsonAug 13, 1992 11:13 PM
Hi Tim, welcome to midi. My kids got an mt-240 for Xmas 2 yrs ago. It is cool for the price and has midi ports to boot. For software check out a program called Super Jam, it will allow you to compose using different styles of music and put together your own band on the Amiga and it is midi capable too. What kind of gear do you presently have? C.Julson—->via Whap
#21262From: Tim ByersAug 14, 1992 9:43 AM
Chris, Thanks for the welcome. All I've got so far is the Amiga! (2000 w/2.04 and HD). I do have three or four sequencers left over from my old 500 which I bought used… namely, Dr.T's KCS (old version, doco says Atari), Soundscape, Dynamic Sound Studio, and then I have MED from CompuServe and Gold Disk's Music 2000 (bundled with the 2000). I'm going to get an interface and some cables. The MT-240 I'm looking at is being sold for $100 asking price. Is it worth that? Also, how do you use it with SuperJam! I've seen the demo program and it looks attractive. Finally, how many voices can you use with the MT-240. I'm also con- sidering a Casio KZ101 for the same price as the MT-240 but the seller says you can only get four voices on the Amiga, which is no more than Med or Music 2000 without midi. Thanks for your help! Tim
#21270From: Jim DuttonAug 15, 1992 2:07 AM
A little more about the Casio MT-240: with Sonix, I get 8 voices: 4 Amiga and 4 Casio. Sonix has a limitation of 8 voices. While I had no problem using it with Dr. T's products, its limitation of channels (3) means some remapping, or, bypassing files with more channels than can be easily remapped down to 3 (too many events on one channel can cause it to choke). I did try SuperJam, but had some problems trying to use MIDI. I THINK I got it to work ONCE, but later on could not, which may have been more my fault than anything else. Also, the ugly DMCS port will not work at all with the Casio MT-240. I spent mucho time changing DMCS presets, channels, voices, et cetera, but never got it to work with the 240 (??). I have not tried MED, Soundscape, nor Sound Studio, so can't say much there. Real World: from southern Illinois, USA Internet: ca0008 at siucvmb.siu.edu
#21319From: Tim ByersAug 18, 1992 1:48 PM
Jim, Thanks for the info. I've gone with the CZ101 because the seller had and extra cartridge and books. Tim
#21284From: Chris N.JulsonAug 16, 1992 8:28 AM
Hi Tim, Q1=List price is approx $220. I've seen 'em street-price for $165. I guess $100 is fair to high (depending on the used market in the area). Q2=Super Jam will use any midi kybd as an additional sound module to that which is produced internally on the Amiga. Q3=I don't believe the Cz101 is multi-voice. It was designed primarily for single-voice, solo work. The manual for the mt-240 states it can be "mapped" for midi in 2 setups: 1)as a single kybd with 6 note poly capability 2)as a split kybd into 3 sections, (6 note section,4 note section, and a 2 note section for multi-sound source. Each section will accept Pgm chg commands so you can change sounds from the Amiga. Plus, you can directly access the percussion section of the mt-240 via midi note numbers. The unit will send/receive on channels 1-4 only, accepts pgm chg commands 0-29 on chan 1-3 and accepts 0-19 on chan 4. Overall, I think it has more midi capability than the 101. You should check it and the manual out for more info. Depending on your budget you might want to consider finding a used Kawai or Roland unit, K1 or D10. Dr T makes an editor for the K1 that will run with KCS, so you could edit and sequence sounds and your song without having to boot and reboot prgms. Anyway just a thought, it really depends on where you want to go with your setup. Hope this helps. Regards, C.Julson/Gusman Theatre *——->
#21295From: Dominick J. FontanaAug 17, 1992 2:41 AM
Chris, The Casio CZ-101 is 4-voice multitimbral. I'm not familiar with MT-240. Is it programmable? The reason the CZ-101 was so popular was that it was multitimbral, it was programmable, it sounded good, and was cheap. Dom Fontana
#21296From: Chris N.JulsonAug 17, 1992 6:36 AM
Dom, Sorry, I stand corrected on the 101. The mt has limited prog'g within its presets. Thanks,alot Chris J.——>
#21325From: Dominick J. FontanaAug 19, 1992 12:23 AM
Don'y mention it, Chris. Dom Fontana
#21305From: Tim ByersAug 17, 1992 8:47 PM
Chris, Thanks for the good info… I ended up getting the 101 for the main reason that the seller had an Amiga and demonstrated the midi capabilities. The other owner didn't really know anything about the midi of the MT-240. But thanks for your time and info on SuperJam… Tim
#21317From: acAug 18, 1992 7:30 AM
Tim, There is a ShareWare program called CZar that will U/Dload patches to the CZ-101. I have been using it for years. It lets you edit sounds and also comes with some nice patches. Andy
#21261From: Dominick J. FontanaAug 14, 1992 12:45 AM
Tim, Hello and welcome to the forum. I have a Casio CZ101. Could you please be more specific about what you'd like to know? I'll be happy to answer your questions. Dom Fontana
#21263From: Tim ByersAug 14, 1992 9:50 AM
Dom, thanks! I've seen you in the midi forum. Basically I want to use my A2000 (2.04/HD) with a midi keyboard to experiment with music composition. I have some programs already that are midi capable and I'm guessing they'll work. I want to use the keyboard to send info to the sequencer since I'd rather play than compose on the Amiga, trying to figure out rhythms and all that. Then I suppose I'd like to play the music through the Casio if that's better than putting all the samples in the Amiga. The Casio's seller has an Amiga and says you can only use four voices on the Casio. Is that a drawback? (someone in the midi forum thought so) So, I guess I'm trying to get at this: for simply wanting to get going in midi/music for my own pleasure and education, would it be worth $100 (asking price for the Casio CZ101) to get the Casio? Maybe if you shared your "early days" with midi that would help too. Thanks again! Tim
#21269From: Jim DuttonAug 15, 1992 2:07 AM
The Casio MT-240 is the best sounding keyboard in the inexpensive range of 'boards. It has the BEST natural piano sound of any 'board < $1,000. One major drawback of the 240 is that while it has 49 keys, there are SMALL keys (perhaps half the size of "regular" keys). While it has 20 built-in rythms, none of them can be used under MIDI control. You can send a command (SYSEX) to SET the current selection, but the 240 does not provide for any command to ENABLE or turn on the rythm "section". The 240 DOES, however, have stereo output (built-in speakers) which many of the other 'boards of its class do not have. It does have MIDI connectors – one each, IN and OUT. The following is a summarized spec sheet: 49 keys, 10-note polyphonic (3 voice channels, one auto-rythm channel) 20 preset tones (piano, harpsichord,vibes,jazz organ,pipe organ,brass ensemble,strings,flute,chorus,jazz guitar,bells,funky clavi,metallic sound,synth ensemble,percussion,elec piano,organ,accordian,synth reed, and bass) 20 auto-rythms, Casio chord, and an output jack 210 "tone bank" (combinations of preset tones) "The MIDI function transmits and receives MIDI messages as a single keyboard (6-note polyphonic)." The 10-note poly is for manual playing. I have tried just about ALL of the $400 and under 'boards and found that the 240 had the best sounding instruments (Pulse Code Modulation), but that is MY ear. I am not a real performer, but would never attempt to use the 240 for performance based upon the small keys – your fingers can slip too easily. For a "beginning" MIDI setup, the price and performance of the 240 can't be beaten, albeit most other 'boards do have larger keys. Real World: from southern Illinois, USA Internet: ca0008 at siucvmb.siu.edu
#21274From: Dominick J. FontanaAug 15, 1992 2:00 PM
Tim, I think the CZ-101 is a good place for you to start. See if you can get it for less than $100. If not, I still think it's worth $100. It's really a great beginning synth. Again, I still kept mine. Yes the CZ will do what you want. You have to get a MIDI interface for the Amiga. The ECE MIDI interface is a good cheap one. Let me know if you need more info on interfaces. The interface allows you to connect the CZ to the Amiga and the Amiga to the CZ. Then you need sequencing software. I recommend Bars&Pipes Pro from Blue Ribbon. If you don't want to spend that much now, you can get Bars&Pipes (not the Pro version) and upgrade to Pro later. Then you put the sequencer into RECORD mode and play the CZ in real time. You can then edit your performance using the Amiga and play it back through your CZ. Actually the CZ has 8-voice polyphony. That means 8 notes can sound at once. The CZ also has 2 oscillators. You use the oscillators to create patches (sounds). However, most of the patches use 2 oscillators, so you are limited to 4 notes sounding at once. A few patches only use one oscillator, so you could play 8 notes at once if all the notes were only made up of one oscillator each. For all practical purposes though, you can consider it as a 4 voice unit. You'll want to use 2 oscillators per patch. In any event, in multi-timbral mode, you are only limited to 4 voices, regardless of the number of oscillators per patch. This means that when using the CZ with a sequencer you can assign 4 voices to play at the same time. They can be 4 different voices, but then you couldn't play chords. If you wanted to play 4 note chords using a piano sound, you'd have to assign all 4 voices to the piano. So while it is a bit limiting, I still think it's great for you to start with. What made the CZ so popular was that it was cheap, sounded good, and was programmable. That still holds true. I recommend it. *** Dom Fontana ***
#21304From: Tim ByersAug 17, 1992 8:44 PM
Dom, Thanks for the good CLEAR info… its what I need. I ended up going with this… cost me $125 but came with a 64-patch cartridge and several books. The seller had it hooked up to his A500 to demonstrate, and showed me a Fred Fish program to use to create sounds. He claims that using a sequencer you could get four voices out of the Casio and four more out of the Amiga, simultaneously, for eight total. True? Thanks! Tim
#21326From: Dominick J. FontanaAug 19, 1992 12:26 AM
Tim, Yes, that's true. You can get four voices from the CZ-101 and 4 from the Amiga. However, for any serious work, you wouldn't use the Amiga's internal 8-bit samples. But if you're just starting out, it will be a lot of fun for awhile. Good luck. Dom Fontana
#21265From: Bill Hardman/UKAug 14, 1992 4:45 PM
The Yamaha DX-100 is a four operator FM synthesiser with various preset sounds and the capability to generate and modify your own via the FM "operators". As far as I know, it's poyphonic and multitimbral with keyboard splits and the rest. The FM synthesis is a bit simpler to use than the DX-7 which uses 6 operators. By ENT-10 I wonder if you mean the EMT-10. That's an expander originally meant for the H Series multikeyboards I do believe. There are a number of AWM (Advanced Wave Memory), i.e. sampled, sounds available via MIDI but it doesn't have a keyboard of its own. It has to be slaved to a master keyboard of some description. It's piano sound is very highly rated and a lot of people like it just for that. I don't really know about the Casios, but I suspect if you're new to the subject you might find them easier to use in the beginning than the DX-100. The EMT-10 (if that's what you mean) just plugs in. Hope this helps.
#21273From: Tim ByersAug 15, 1992 9:38 AM
Bill: Thanks! Indeed I am new and just learning… I may go with the simple Casio since the guy that's selling it has an Amiga and is willing to help. Tim
#21316From: acAug 18, 1992 7:27 AM
Tim,, I have a CZ-101. It makes some sounds very nicely. It's two major limitatios are: 1) Usually only 4 voices (8 w/certain Patches, but most of these don't sound very good) 2) Voices do not respond to velocity Info. (I was considering selling mine, but I'm not sure now.)