#3D from a master
13 messages in this thread
Well Gary, someone finally did it! A really awesome 3D program for the PC
for under $500! I just bought Will VInton's PLAYMATION (CLAYMATION fame!)
3D program which is specifically designed for 3D character animation. He
uses the same technique as his claymation characters, that is, flexible
spines. It is tivial to make a teapot jump and twist its spout. Rendering
is ray-traced and sucks compared to 3DS, but what a nice addition to the
graphic artists library. I paid $349 and am really impressed. Something you
guys might consider is their modeller technique. real-time flexible splines
like Alias stuff. They are using a really fast spline algorithm (like the
one my friend at UCI invented, remember, Dan wasn't interested!). You can
take an object and twist it sorta real-time. Oh yea, it is a Windows app
and runs completely compatibly across MAC, IBM and Amiga platforms. So
folks in all three arenas can swap goodies without loss. Pretty neat stuff.
As far as I can tell so far, it only utputs 320×200 though. Their output
support is pretty weak (rendering, video modes, 24bit, etc.) They do have
24 bit output but the video I saw was horrible rendering, probably due to
the slow ray-tracing they are doing. Anyway, just though you might want to
look into it!
-Doug
DougIs there any way to export models from PlayMation? (DXF or 3DS)
-Mark
Nope. Yet another proprietary format.
Doug,
Playmation is Martin Hash's newest program. He originally started out on
the Amiga with a program called Journeyman. Then Animator Apprentice. He
showed an early version of Playmation on the Amiga in Dallas/Siggraph two
years ago. At this years' show in Chicago, Martin's booth was about
50-feet from ours, so I got plenty of time to check it out, and a number of
us at Adesk actually bought copies and have been playing with it. (I'm sure
a number of other folks on the forum, as well.)
Although the program is basically a toy, there are a number of cool
concepts and features. If he'd only output dxf files, or even targa files
with alpha so you could composite them in VP, it could become a vaguely
useful tool. Probably the best use would be as a modeler for nurby
surfaces, but there's currently no way to export anything.
– G
Yes, at Siggraph, Martin bragged to me that even the Autodesk guys bought
three copies of his program. 🙂 He took it as admiration for his
program, but I saw it as intelligent market research.
Martin spent his first few years in the Amiga market, as you said. Their
products contain a number of fascinating features, but I've alwayds found
their interfaces difficult. For example, back in 1987 or 1988, they has a
voxel-based rendering and animation system. You'd design generic skeletons
for characters – a biped could serve as the form for any humanoid
character. You could define motions for skeletons – define a "walk" for
the "biped", and suddenly all the biped-based characters knew how to walk.
There was a choreography module, where you linked moving characters within
a scene, and set camera motions. All very cool concepts! But the interface
had rough spots, like needing to press RETURN at mysterious moments before
you could proceed to the next phase, without any on-screen indicator that
you were paused…
I've been talking to him about exporting and importing for many years. It
took about three years before he'd even send me a copy of the program, and
he's yet to send any file format information. At Siggraph, I offered to
help him on a DXF export for his program, but I'm not sure he's interested.
He's got this thing against polygons. 🙂
I mentioned "voxel-based" above… In this program, you'd cover the
skeletons with slices of colored pixels. Imagine making an arm: you'd draw
two side views and a top view of the upper arm using a *bitmap* editor, it
would generate the sausage-like object as 3D pixels (like a voxel, a volume
pixel). You were free to alter the sausage as slices, recoloring, etc. It
would take on the colors of the side views you drew, so it was very easy to
"color" clothing, rough elbows, eyes, etc. Rendering was quite quick in
this program, too.
Yup. Animator Apprentice was definitely one of the most unusual 3D
programs I've ever seen. I've always respected Martin's unique perspective
on how he envisions working in 3D. (he sure has a big thing against
polygons!)
– G
John,
My source informs me that Martin has released his proprietary model
file format into the public domain. You should re-contact him if you want
to write a .DXF translator for Playmation.
Good points. I agree, it is basically a toy, but it has some features that
make it unique and worth having. It certainly doesn't replace 3DS, but if
we could get them to output 3DS or DXF files, it might be a good entry
level piece for folks who don't have $3000!
Doug,
Does Playmation input/output .DXF files ? Could be real useful as a morph
target generator utility for Topas or 3-DS . Have you signed up as a
dealer?
Bruce
No, I'm not a dealer. I don't think it is incredible strong as a modeller.
My interest is in character animation. It is VERY strong in that area. From
that standpoint, export makes no sense. If one wants to use PLAYMATION for
animation, he will be limited PLAYMATION for rendering and output.
Doug,
Sounds like another job for Video-Post. Character animate in Playmation,
composite in 3-D Studio. Just another "utility" for the toolbox.
Bruce
Yea, but when their only output is 320×200 proprietary format, how do you
get it to video post???
Doug,
I bought Playmation at SIGGRAPH, it's pretty neat, and the fact that it's a
windows program had me intrigued, but a number of short-comings were
apparent almost immeaditly:
1. The installation installs over 300 subdirectories, they even have one
font that comsumes no less than 60 subdirectories.
2. No import or export to common industry file formats.
3. No 32 bit rendering so even the targa files are almost useless. Only
only solid color backgrounds are available.
4. No interactive texture mapping, checking texture placement requires
switching modules and rendering to 256 colors or shelling to DOS and
running a command line renderer. Both of which are extremely slow.
The list goes on, but it was a useful and inexpensive exercise in spline
based modeling.
James