#Need MIDI advice/keybds
20 messages in this thread
Hi:
I'm a novice to music and the Amiga but want to get into midi.
Any of you know anything about the following keyboards?
Casio CZ101? Casiotone MT-240? Yamaha DX-100? Yamaha ENT-10?
Any other beginner advice would be helpful.
Thanks!
Hi Tim, welcome to midi. My kids got an mt-240 for Xmas 2 yrs ago. It is
cool for the price and has midi ports to boot. For software check out a
program called Super Jam, it will allow you to compose using different
styles of music and put together your own band on the Amiga and it is midi
capable too. What kind of gear do you presently have?
C.Julson—->via Whap
Chris,
Thanks for the welcome. All I've got so far is the Amiga! (2000 w/2.04
and HD). I do have three or four sequencers left over from my old 500
which I bought used… namely, Dr.T's KCS (old version, doco says Atari),
Soundscape, Dynamic Sound Studio, and then I have MED from CompuServe and
Gold Disk's Music 2000 (bundled with the 2000).
I'm going to get an interface and some cables. The MT-240 I'm looking
at is being sold for $100 asking price. Is it worth that?
Also, how do you use it with SuperJam! I've seen the demo program and
it looks attractive.
Finally, how many voices can you use with the MT-240. I'm also con-
sidering a Casio KZ101 for the same price as the MT-240 but the seller
says you can only get four voices on the Amiga, which is no more than
Med or Music 2000 without midi.
Thanks for your help!
Tim
A little more about the Casio MT-240: with Sonix, I get 8 voices: 4 Amiga
and 4 Casio. Sonix has a limitation of 8 voices.
While I had no problem using it with Dr. T's products, its limitation of
channels (3) means some remapping, or, bypassing files with more channels
than can be easily remapped down to 3 (too many events on one channel can
cause it to choke).
I did try SuperJam, but had some problems trying to use MIDI. I THINK I got
it to work ONCE, but later on could not, which may have been more my fault
than anything else.
Also, the ugly DMCS port will not work at all with the Casio MT-240. I
spent mucho time changing DMCS presets, channels, voices, et cetera, but
never got it to work with the 240 (??). I have not tried MED, Soundscape,
nor Sound Studio, so can't say much there.
Real World: from southern Illinois, USA Internet: ca0008 at
siucvmb.siu.edu
Hi Tim,
Q1=List price is approx $220. I've seen 'em street-price for $165. I guess
$100 is fair to high (depending on the used market in the area).
Q2=Super Jam will use any midi kybd as an additional sound module to that
which is produced internally on the Amiga.
Q3=I don't believe the Cz101 is multi-voice. It was designed primarily for
single-voice, solo work. The manual for the mt-240 states it can be
"mapped" for midi in 2 setups:
1)as a single kybd with 6 note poly capability
2)as a split kybd into 3 sections, (6 note section,4 note section,
and a 2 note section for multi-sound source. Each section will accept Pgm
chg commands so you can change sounds from the Amiga.
Plus, you can directly access the percussion section of the mt-240 via midi
note numbers. The unit will send/receive on channels 1-4 only, accepts pgm
chg commands 0-29 on chan 1-3 and accepts 0-19 on chan 4.
Overall, I think it has more midi capability than the 101. You should check
it and the manual out for more info.
Depending on your budget you might want to consider finding a used
Kawai or Roland unit, K1 or D10. Dr T makes an editor for the K1 that will
run with KCS, so you could edit and sequence sounds and your song without
having to boot and reboot prgms. Anyway just a thought, it really depends
on where you want to go with your setup. Hope this helps.
Regards,
C.Julson/Gusman Theatre *——->
Chris,
The Casio CZ-101 is 4-voice multitimbral. I'm not familiar with MT-240. Is
it programmable? The reason the CZ-101 was so popular was that it was
multitimbral, it was programmable, it sounded good, and was cheap.
Dom Fontana
Dom,
Sorry, I stand corrected on the 101. The mt has limited prog'g within its
presets.
Thanks,alot
Chris J.——>
Don'y mention it, Chris.
Dom Fontana
Chris,
Thanks for the good info… I ended up getting the 101 for the main
reason that the seller had an Amiga and demonstrated the midi capabilities.
The other owner didn't really know anything about the midi of the MT-240.
But thanks for your time and info on SuperJam…
Tim
Tim,
Hello and welcome to the forum.
I have a Casio CZ101. Could you please be more specific about what you'd
like to know? I'll be happy to answer your questions.
Dom Fontana
Dom,
thanks! I've seen you in the midi forum.
Basically I want to use my A2000 (2.04/HD) with a midi keyboard to
experiment with music composition. I have some programs already that
are midi capable and I'm guessing they'll work.
I want to use the keyboard to send info to the sequencer since I'd rather
play than compose on the Amiga, trying to figure out rhythms and all that.
Then I suppose I'd like to play the music through the Casio if that's
better than putting all the samples in the Amiga.
The Casio's seller has an Amiga and says you can only use four voices on
the Casio. Is that a drawback? (someone in the midi forum thought so)
So, I guess I'm trying to get at this: for simply wanting to get
going in midi/music for my own pleasure and education, would it be worth
$100 (asking price for the Casio CZ101) to get the Casio?
Maybe if you shared your "early days" with midi that would help too.
Thanks again!
Tim
The Casio MT-240 is the best sounding keyboard in the inexpensive range of
'boards. It has the BEST natural piano sound of any 'board < $1,000. One
major drawback of the 240 is that while it has 49 keys, there are SMALL
keys (perhaps half the size of "regular" keys).
While it has 20 built-in rythms, none of them can be used under MIDI
control. You can send a command (SYSEX) to SET the current selection, but
the 240 does not provide for any command to ENABLE or turn on the rythm
"section".
The 240 DOES, however, have stereo output (built-in speakers) which many of
the other 'boards of its class do not have. It does have MIDI connectors –
one each, IN and OUT.
The following is a summarized spec sheet:
49 keys, 10-note polyphonic (3 voice channels, one auto-rythm channel)
20 preset tones (piano, harpsichord,vibes,jazz organ,pipe organ,brass
ensemble,strings,flute,chorus,jazz guitar,bells,funky clavi,metallic
sound,synth ensemble,percussion,elec piano,organ,accordian,synth reed,
and bass)
20 auto-rythms, Casio chord, and an output jack
210 "tone bank" (combinations of preset tones)
"The MIDI function transmits and receives MIDI messages as a single
keyboard (6-note polyphonic)." The 10-note poly is for manual playing.
I have tried just about ALL of the $400 and under 'boards and found that
the 240 had the best sounding instruments (Pulse Code Modulation), but that
is MY ear. I am not a real performer, but would never attempt to use the
240 for performance based upon the small keys – your fingers can slip too
easily.
For a "beginning" MIDI setup, the price and performance of the 240 can't be
beaten, albeit most other 'boards do have larger keys.
Real World: from southern Illinois, USA Internet: ca0008 at
siucvmb.siu.edu
Tim,
I think the CZ-101 is a good place for you to start. See if you can get it
for less than $100. If not, I still think it's worth $100. It's really a
great beginning synth. Again, I still kept mine.
Yes the CZ will do what you want. You have to get a MIDI interface for the
Amiga. The ECE MIDI interface is a good cheap one. Let me know if you need
more info on interfaces. The interface allows you to connect the CZ to the
Amiga and the Amiga to the CZ.
Then you need sequencing software. I recommend Bars&Pipes Pro from Blue
Ribbon. If you don't want to spend that much now, you can get Bars&Pipes
(not the Pro version) and upgrade to Pro later.
Then you put the sequencer into RECORD mode and play the CZ in real time.
You can then edit your performance using the Amiga and play it back through
your CZ.
Actually the CZ has 8-voice polyphony. That means 8 notes can sound at
once. The CZ also has 2 oscillators. You use the oscillators to create
patches (sounds). However, most of the patches use 2 oscillators, so you
are limited to 4 notes sounding at once. A few patches only use one
oscillator, so you could play 8 notes at once if all the notes were only
made up of one oscillator each.
For all practical purposes though, you can consider it as a 4 voice unit.
You'll want to use 2 oscillators per patch. In any event, in multi-timbral
mode, you are only limited to 4 voices, regardless of the number of
oscillators per patch. This means that when using the CZ with a sequencer
you can assign 4 voices to play at the same time. They can be 4 different
voices, but then you couldn't play chords. If you wanted to play 4 note
chords using a piano sound, you'd have to assign all 4 voices to the piano.
So while it is a bit limiting, I still think it's great for you to start
with. What made the CZ so popular was that it was cheap, sounded good, and
was programmable. That still holds true. I recommend it. *** Dom Fontana
***
Dom,
Thanks for the good CLEAR info… its what I need. I ended up going
with this… cost me $125 but came with a 64-patch cartridge and several
books. The seller had it hooked up to his A500 to demonstrate, and showed
me a Fred Fish program to use to create sounds.
He claims that using a sequencer you could get four voices out of the Casio
and four more out of the Amiga, simultaneously, for eight total. True?
Thanks!
Tim
Tim,
Yes, that's true. You can get four voices from the CZ-101 and 4 from the
Amiga. However, for any serious work, you wouldn't use the Amiga's internal
8-bit samples. But if you're just starting out, it will be a lot of fun for
awhile.
Good luck.
Dom Fontana
The Yamaha DX-100 is a four operator FM synthesiser with various preset
sounds and the capability to generate and modify your own via the FM
"operators". As far as I know, it's poyphonic and multitimbral with
keyboard splits and the rest. The FM synthesis is a bit simpler to use than
the DX-7 which uses 6 operators. By ENT-10 I wonder if you mean the EMT-10.
That's an expander originally meant for the H Series multikeyboards I do
believe. There are a number of AWM (Advanced Wave Memory), i.e. sampled,
sounds available via MIDI but it doesn't have a keyboard of its own. It has
to be slaved to a master keyboard of some description. It's piano sound is
very highly rated and a lot of people like it just for that. I don't really
know about the Casios, but I suspect if you're new to the subject you might
find them easier to use in the beginning than the DX-100. The EMT-10 (if
that's what you mean) just plugs in. Hope this helps.
Tim,,
I have a CZ-101. It makes some sounds very nicely. It's two major
limitatios are:
1) Usually only 4 voices (8 w/certain Patches, but most of these don't
sound very good)
2) Voices do not respond to velocity Info.
(I was considering selling mine, but I'm not sure now.)