#Tape Troubles
39 messages in this thread
I've got an Exabyte 8mm tape drive on my system now. I've had trouble
warm-booting when the tape drive is on. Cold boots usually work fine, but
warm boots don't. I've got a DKB multi-start board installed. When the
boot fails, I get the purple animated-disk 2.0 "Insert WB" screen. I've got
it connected via the external SCSI from a GVP '030 Combo board. It's not
terminated externally – if I add the terminator, it doesn't boot at all.
What might I do to get around this? I'm not sure how I can help the GVP
along with this… it's not like you can make adjustments in the FastPrep
software and save out a new RDB that would help…
John,
Someone recently posted that you can specify a driver name to HDToolbox and
use it with a GVP interface. That might give you a few more options in
dealing with it.
David
This may seem like a crazy question, but where's HDToolBox? I didn't see it
on my system partition – maybe I deleted it because I didn't think I could
use it with the GVP.
And even if I had it, what could I adjust with it that might help?
John:
HDToolBox is (was) in your TOOLS drawer.
// Michael
\X/ …on AutoPilot
Michael,
It's not in MY Tools drawer. It was on the 2.04 Install disk but it doesn't
seem to have been copied. Which makes sense to me considering how often one
uses it.
Malcolm
John,
I also have a GVP controller and thus have never used it. From watching
messages from those who do have it, I gather that it can be used to save a
new RDB. It's not on my system partition, either.
David
Saving RDBs to removeable media doesn't make much sense to me. I tried it,
within the GVP software, and sure enough, it says "you can only write RDBs
to valid random access devices." Somehow, it knows a tape drive isn't
random access. I'm sure I've got HDToolbox around here someplace, I know I
used it for an article I wrote six-eight months ago, when I was having
other SCSI troubles. 🙂
I don't think HDTollbox works with controllers other than the C= one. I
tried it with my GVP Series II and HDToolBox informed me that the driver
wasn't loaded. All the function gadgets were ghosted.
John, RDB on SyQuest cartridges must be saved for my GVP controller to work
with them, unless I want to issue mount and diskchange commands each time I
swap a cart.
Chris
Chris,
HDtoolbox will work with your GVP series II if you enter "hdtoolbox
gvpscsi.device" from cli.
Paul D. – – via AutoPilot
I think I figured out my tape trouble… I opened up the tape drive.
There's a SCSI ID switch on the drive as well as the remote switch. The
internal ID is set to "3". The external switch merely sets the same
jumpers, so when I set the external switch to "5", it's the logical OR of
the two switches. I think it would have taken me an hour longer to figure
this out, had I not had a copy of the deep tech documentation for this tape
drive. The user-level docs do not warn of this, of course, and surely the
Mac company is at fault for preparing this drive incorrectly.
Another grain of salt… the techs at Relax Technology insisted that the
drive was terminated internally. This is why I was opening the case; to
remove them. However, it wasn't terminated internally. When they insisted,
I said, why did you ship it to me with a terminator, and why are there two
D-50s on the back, if it's terminated inside? Another smart piece of advice
they gave: why don't you try putting it in the middle of the SCSI bus
instead of the end, in direct contradiction of what should be done if it
was truly internally terminated.
How do regular people get things done? 🙂 If it weren't for my
artificial and unnatural knowledge of SCSI, I'dve had to return this to the
factory to get it fixed…
On top of this, they shipped the wrong backup software for this model of
drive. The "readme" on the disk explicitly says it doesn't work with this
model, and that you have to buy another package instead.
In Relax's defense, their call-tracking is very good, someone called me
back to confirm that I'd received the help that I needed, even though I
hadn't. And I was able to talk them out of the $50 difference in price
between the right and the wrong backup programs – on a $3200 tape drive.
🙂
JohnI've had pretty good experiences with Relax Technology. They're really
good at fixing any problems you might have with their stuff. They're
expanding fairly rapidly and probably have a few techs that are still green
around the ears. They don't know much about Amigas. Every time I go to the
factory and mention that I'm using their devices on an Amiga, the same guy
says he has a friend in Germany who has an Amiga and wants to know where he
can find program cartridges for his friend.
– Richard
Yes, I use RDBs on Syquests, too – but a tape drive is not "random access",
so it doesn't make much sense. It doesn't it isn't a good idea to put
anything on a tape that doesn't belong there.
Chris:
HDToolBox will work with other brand controllers, as long as they support
the RDB standard. To let HDToolBox know to use gvpscsi.device rather than
scsi.device just add the tooltype of "SCSI_DRIVER_NAME=gvpscsi.device" to
HDToolBoxes Icon. having said that, why would you WANT to use HDToolBox?
Almost any program is better than that!
// -Mike Schiller
\X/ AMIGA! On AutoPilot in sunny Fort Lauderdale
Mike,
Thanks for the info, another person has already suggested the tooltype
change. Oh, I don't know just because I wanted to see what it would do, I
have no need or use for it, just read the thread about it and decided to
take a look at it. I never gave it a single thought before. Your right
though, why on earth would I want to use it. I have no idea. I don't need
it that is for sure. But tell me this, is it better prepared to work on
hard disks than C= DiskDoctor is to fix them?
chris
However, if youhave multiple controllers, HDToolbox can only find devices
attached to the "0" controller. e.g. if controller 2 uses scsi unit numbers
of 100- 107, HDToolBox cannot find them.
wmc
typically the drivers are written by the controller maker and aren't…
cross-compatible (sometimes they are) in all cases. I recommend ALWAYS
writing out RDBs using the drivers which came with your controller (e.g.
using the manufacturer's drive setup software to write the RDBs).
RDB.LZH in AmigaTech library 11 (Larry Phillips)
RDB allows you to see the first block of the RigdiDiskBlocks on any
hard drive that uses them for automounting. It also allows you to save
a copy of them in a file, and to restore them should they become
corrupted, or if you are replacing a disk with another of the same
type.
// Michael
\X/ …on AutoPilot
Mike,
What are rigid disk blocks? I've heard of them but have no idea how, why or
what etc.
– via Whap!
Someone more technically inclined will have to jump in here and give your
more detail, but basically the RDB is a reserved portion of your hard
drive (used by hard drives/controllers that support it) where the
partition information and drive information are stored. An autobooting
controller driven by the appropriate s/w can immediately read the RDB when
the cpu is booted, and automount the drives partitions without having to
read a mountlist file entry. When you use your controllers software to
partition the hard drive, that information is saved in the Rigid Disk
Block. (or something like that!)
// Michael
\X/ …on AutoPilot
I think that is quite technical enough Michael thanks very much.
🙂
– via Whap!
Software from that Larry guy? Sheesh, where's he been?
In AmigaTech CO just about every night… you just missed him the other
night.
// Michael
\X/ …on AutoPilot
writing a RDB to a tape drive is pointless. there are no cylinders to…
hold it! be sure that the RDB on your boot drive has the drivers you want
to use (be they GVP or whatever). I simply believe the current SCSI device
driver you're using just doesn't like certain aspects of how Exabyte does
their SCSI tape handling or just doesn't know what commands the Exabyte
supports and which it doesn't. Almost no SCSI controller manufacturer has
their driver right for ALL tapes. I've yet to encounter a
controller/driver combination that couldn't be spoofed by some new SCSI
device that the controller/driver makers didn't test on. It has happened
to me several times – and IVS does a spectacular job of making whatever
changes are needed to their driver and … BINGO everything starts to work
OK again.
Perhaps this might help, perhaps not.
HDToolbox can be found on your 2.04 install diskette, Tools drawer. If
you want to use the program for your GVP hard drive (don't know about
tape), type this in HDToolbox information window;
SCSI_DEVICE_NAME=gvpscsi.device
then save.
Hope this helps.
Alan,
Thanks for the information and for the TOOLTYPE to use.
Fortunately, I haven't had the need to use HDToolbox as yet, so I haven't
done any research on how it's done. I remembered someone posting that it
was possible, but couldn't remember the particulars.
David
David,
Glad to help <g> Just have to put that information on the TOOLTYPE for
GVP controller away in a place where you can refer to it. Time goes
by…Now lets see where did I put that. <chuckle>
John,
I'd strongly suspect the Exabyte's SCSI Drive ID is conflicting
with your boot drive SCSI ID.
Don
They are clearly on different IDs, I know the internal drives are 0 and 1,
and I'm very careful about IDs in general, because I have scanners, CD-ROM
drives, two Syquests and this tape drive that I swap between computers via
SCSI. Every device has a sticker with its ID on the front. One thing that
did perplex me: when I clicked the gadget in the GVP software to go from ID
to ID, whenever I wasn't on a valid hard disk ID, it would display the
information for the Exabyte, even though it wasn't at those other IDs, as
if it were every ID. Otherwise, it works relatively well. I was able to
write my own programs that accessed it via Read/Write, through BTN TAPE:
handler. I've been able to read Abekas A-60 (a video gizmo) tapes just
fine. It's just these boots and hangs I get now and then. I've got a spare
HardFrame around here, I think I'll try it with that.
John,
I had a similar problem with my A2090. I thought I had a drive set
at ID 0 (all jumpers off) but on this particular drive, all jumpers ON was
ID 0 and all jumpers off, was ID 7. ID 7 also happens to be the SCSI ID of
the host adapter (in my case…the A2090). In any event, The machine
booted ok (off a floppy) but checking for what devices were out there…it
said all ID's were the drive with the ID that conflicted with the host
adapter. I reset the jumpers properly and everything returned to normal.
With that in mind…what exactly are the SCSI ID's of the devices
you have on that bus…including the host adapter (usually at ID 7).
Don
Two Quantums at 0 and 1, and the tape drive at 5, I believe the GVP is at 7
because its software doesn't let you access that ID.
John,
If you've got a way to do it…try powering the tape drive
separately (or perhaps it already is). Then turn it on 15 or so seconds
before you try to boot. See what happens.
Final thing, of course, or perhaps the next thing…is to call GVP,
see what they have to say about it.
Don
I'm tantalizingly close. Using BTN, I can get Hue's 'tar' to write
sometimes as many as 2500 blocks. I think it might be that this 'btn'
TAPE: driver isn't up to snuff. It's good, but maybe this tape drive is
too smart for its own good. It's got a 1M buffer on-board, and I think the
hangs I'm seeing result at the moments when the buffer is full, tape motion
starts, and the resulting SCSI disconnect / reconnect sequence…
you also might wish to ASSURE that your GVP controller IS NOT supporting
'SCSI Reselection'. Reselection can cause serious mysterious problems
unless very carefully protocolled. The TCPro deliberately DOES NOT support
'reselection'. I don't know if GVP gives you a choice to or not. HDToolBox
lets you cancel 'reselection' if you wish.
John;
I don't know if a "TCPro" is a drive or not, but if it is not and it
"deliberately DOES NOT support 'reselection" then you don't have to worry
about the 'reselection' flag. The 'reselection' flag is for those drives
that do not support reselection that say that they do (many, many drives).
If all drives correctly responded to the reselection request then the flag
would be unnecessary as the driver would use reselection only on those
drives where it worked.
-bill
Did the suppliers of the Exabyte know anything about Amiga SCSI? Or were
they just 'order takers'? Can't believe they misinformed you on the
termination issue, etc. When you pay $3200 you're entitled to TERRIFIC
tech support where THEY make the phone call to Exabyte, not YOU.
I have a TEAC based mechanism and I have the same problem with a GVP
controller and the Tape drive. Warm boots give me intermittant problems
that are corrected with a cold boot. Hasn't bothered me much since I don't
reboot too often. Possibly a GVP problem?
-Jonathan
a. have you tried a direct 50-pin SCSI ribbon cable connection instead of
the 25-pin 'rs232' type SCSI connection? b. have you checked all other
termination so that only the two ends of the SCSI bus are correctly
terminated? c. have you checked if the terminator on the tape is driven by
the SCSI bus (powered by SCSI bus) or powered by the drive? Some SCSI
devices have these options (like the Maxoptix Tahiti 1Gig optical I just
got). The RDB is nearly meaningless in this case (I believe). The question
IS: How are the SCSI tape drivers in GVP's software? There is NO SCSI tape
standard (like there is -nearly- for hard drives). My WangDAT 1300 tape
works perfect with TrumpCardPro and AmiBack under 1.3 and 2.0, but if I try
the 'ERASE TAPE' command in AmiBack the whole system locks up. No problems
booting with tape in or out, though. John, feel free to call if I might be
helpful –
Sounds like a bootpri = -10 on the device number mapped to the tape.
However, this makes no sense as tapes don't have RDB's do they? My CCS
Touchdown doesn't show one. If yours does, set the bootpri to -128.
The other possible is terminaton. It turns out that theGVP rules on
termination areactually not hard and fast. A symptom of the wrong
termination is faiure to boot.
wmc