Challenger
20 messages in this thread
The reason I ask about the Challenger explosion was be cause I read a
treanscript of their recorded conversation from the time just before lift
off to the explosion. (It was here on CI$ in the SPACEFORUM.) According
to that transcript contact was lost at the point of the explosion. (One of
the things that stuck with me was that Judy Resnik, who had been in space
before, noticed something was wrong by the difference in heat. Something
like "<explictive> hot in here!") Geez, It makes me sad just thinking
about it again.
I think this was a cassette tape, in a handheld recorder in the cabin. It
was recovered from the debris. At some point, I think NASA acknoledged its
existence, but refrained from releasing it out of respect for the
astronauts' relatives. I saw a purported transcript in a tabloid that
seemed to match some of the leaked dialog, something like "hold my hand",
but who knows. It makes me sad, too.
I have vivid memories of that day. I could see the columns of smoke from
my office way down here in South FL. Very sad.
Steve
I remember it too Steve. My wife called me at the lab I worked in (in
Gainesville) and told me the shuttle had exploded. I went outside and could
see it from the roof of the hospital.
I was depressed for months after that, and it always makes me sad when I
think of it.
To often today people forget that astronauts are truely heroic figures who
risk their lives every time they fly.
Lou,
Why are the astronauts heroic figures? Because they risk their
lives every time they fly? How about Joe Average Passenger on a commerical
airliner? Aren't they risking their lives every time they fly?
There are lots of dangerous professions…astronauts don't have a
lock on that idea. I reserve the word "hero" for folks who put themselves
in immenent danger of losing their lives while attempting to directly save
another's life.
People such as those that run into burning buildings in order to
save people in the building. Police officers who rescue hostages from
armed suspects. Coast Guardsmen who go out in high seas to rescue people
caught in the storm. Anybody who puts their life on the line…in order to
save another's life.
Don
The dictionary is more flexible about "hero." I think it can be safely
applied to people who are admired for their actions.
John,
While it's true, that one usage of the word "hero" applies to
someone you greatly admire…as in "Who's your hero"…I don't accept that
definition for the context of the discussion…or for my own personal usage
of the word either.
Don
I think they are all heroic Don. One group doesn't exclude the others.
Don:
I normally keep my mouth shut, but space exploration is one of my hot
buttons. <grin> It is my personal opinion that those who "go boldly
forth…" and all that stuff, are risking their lives for the collective
lives of the entire human race. Whether or not we like to admit it, we are
running out of room on this planet, and though we can probably shoe-horn
in 4-5 times the present population, humans like to breed alot faster than
they are currently dying. We can either cut the birth-rate, increase the
death-rate, or spread out. The first two choices are likely to result in
the loss of alot of freedom and dignity for those involved. In addition,
we as a race are reaching the point where one individual or a small group
of individuals could conceivably render this planet uninhabitable, maybe
not today, but definitely within the forseeable future. Increasing the
places where man has a toe-hold is definitely in the "life saving"
catagory, in my opinion.
Clint <VRLI>
Clint,
I agree with everything you say. I just don't put people that are
working for the collective good (thus saving lives) in the category of
"heroic". I do put them in the "greatly admired" category.
Don
Don:
Here we get into semantics. I consider every fireman on the line
fighting a 100000 acre fire which is about to sweep over a small town to
be heros, even though their individual accomplishments may be nothing more
than cutting a section of firebreak. Clearly as a group their deeds are
heroic. They are risking life and limb even though the individual
contribution is but a small piece of the heroic deed.
Clint <VRLI>
Clint,
True…it's a matter of semantics. I consider a fireman putting
out a fire as "doing the job they choose to do", same with the police,
military, etc.
It's when they go above and beyond "the call of duty" that they
raise themselves to heroic status…in my opinion.
Don
Hm. I think anyone is a hero who risks their lives in order to better
others lives. In fact, I think a solid argument could be put forth that
someone who risks their life for something YOU might consider intangible
is the greater hero—putting self behind the benefit of others; that's
heroism. IMHO.
Not to say it might not be stupid – the two aren't exclusive.
–Ben
…via AutoPilot
If you use that logic, then you've got to use it everywhere. Thus,
using your logic…people on both sides of the abortion issue are
heroes, laywers getting killers off on technicalities are heroes, as
are legislators passing legislation for the "greater good". I
certainly agree that selflessness is one of the ingredients of
heroism. I don't agree relative to intangibles. But the above are
my opinions.
I do think people on both sides of the abortion issue are heros –
that's exactly right. I also think one side is competely, utterly
wrong (the right to lifers, if it matters) but I do see and respect
the level of selfless devotion both sides exert.
I think some of the Germans in WW2 and Japanese were undoubtably
heros. I don't think that heroism has an agenda – I think its a human
state of affairs that transcends dominant issues and places risk and
sacrifice before self-interest.
Lawyers getting killers off on technicalities don't fit into my
definitions; they're not risking anything as substantial as their
life, unless you want to go for the zillion to one case where the
angry plaintiff kills the lawyer in vengeful fury (unlikely, when the
killer has gotten off, eh… killer's a MUCH better target for the
victims)
Ditto legislators, and maybe even more so.
Maybe you have my point better now.
Ben
Ben,
I see your point…I just don't agree with it. But then, that's
what makes the world go round.
Don
What surprises me is that we've once again gone to the point where TV
stations (at least those local to me) don't broadcast launches or landings
any more or if they do, it's a few seconds from liftoff or touchdown. Has
it once again gone to the back of people's minds? With all the economic
problems many face these days, it's easy to forget we have a space program.
I just hope it won't take another disaster to make people notice it again.
I'm also glad my cable company started carrying NASA Select during
missions. 🙂
Dan McCoy – via Whap! and saving money doing it too!
I may be wrong but I thing CNN carries all the shuttle liftoffs.
I didn't know about the personal tape recorder. Thanks.
Leslie,
I too have heard that the astronauts were alive until they hit the
water. I forget the source of that information…so no idea if it's true
or not.
The broadcast conversations would have stopped at the explosion of
course, but things equivalent to cockpit recorders may have still kept
working.
Don