#New Amiga from SGI!
26 messages in this thread
Since Commodore builds general purpose 'computers' that happen to have
nice graphics, retargetability is key to the future. Sure, I want newer
chip sets, etc. However, we need the capability to be able to run our OS
on foreign graphics boards. Something that MS/DOS and the Mac OS have had
for a long time.
Actually the Indy has a new GUI interface that, according to some, is more
powerful than the user interface on the Macintosh or the Amiga. You can
do everything from it, including a tcp/ip network configuration.
-mark=
Otto Pilot Engaged..
The PC RTG hasn't exactly been seemless, that's one of the major headaches
in setting a PC up. I don't know about MAC's that much, I try to stay
away from them (I had one for two month's, but couldn't get any decent use
out of it.)
A more powerful GUI sounds good, but if it's at the expense of the command
line, and processing speed, I don't think I'd like it to much. That's one
of the major strengths of the Amiga, you get both a decent GUI, as well as
a powerful (and fast) shell.
On thing I'd be interested in knowing, is if the Indy has the concept of
screens, like intuition, (I love to be able to flip through screens of
varying res and depth's, which is, as far as I've seen, a unique ability
of the Amiga. I wish one of the PC OS's had it.)
Bob Comer — Cruising the nets on AutoPilot from Cheyenne, Wyoming
In PC RTG you are right. It is far from seemless, but so is everything on
the PC. 🙂 However it is there, unlike Amiga. By the way, I have a
486/33 pig sitting right next to my A4000.
The interface is not at the expense of the command line. You can get to
the shell. I think if the Amiga can handle a fast GUI and a command line
the Indy should not have a bit of problem.
I do not know if it has screens or not. I doubt it.
Robert, once again, I don't see the Indy as the 'Amiga Killer', though it
will definately attract many high-end Amiga owners (like myself) to it.
Will I throw my A4000 out? Nope. Would I buy it more toys? Perhaps.
The high-end Amiga market hasn't seen much from Commodore. I wanted my
DSP some time ago, my MPEG video board, etc. Where is it? I grow tired
of waiting and SGI is there. 🙂
I think you need to SEE the Indy before you pass judgement.
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Otto Pilot Engaged..
Mark,
Stay tuned for MPEG!
8^D
Dean
DKB Software
I agree with everything you say, except the last part about passing
judgement, and I'll tell you why: cost, pure and simple. I don't believe
that it's as good a buy as it seems, $4995 for 8-bit graphics on a
diskless workstation is not that great, and I bet the higher color res
costs a LOT more, not to mention turning it into a standalone computer, or
buying a server for it.
Bob Comer — Cruising the nets on AutoPilot from Cheyenne, Wyoming
Not sure what to say here Bob, except you obvisouly have not priced
workstations lately. 🙂
The beast is a 64 bit machine. It has SCSI-2 standard, video camera
standard, monitor standard and 16MB of RAM standard. You can add a 1.2 GB
drive for under $2k. The 24 bit card is another 2k. So at 9k you have a
workstation that outperforms any desktop mainstream micro computer built.
ANY.
The software that ships standard is nothing short of amazing. Simply put,
it is a real innovation.
You don't have to recognize it though, I'll do that for you. 🙂
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Otto Pilot Engaged..
In my line of work, I have to work with many different types of computers,
so spending $10K+ on one machine for my home stuff doesn't make much
sense, even if it is a 64bit RISC machine. (I tend to use more than one
machine, (or a mini,) when I need the power we're talking about with the
INDY, I also need more than one OS, and yes, I need to use Intel based
machines, even though I don't like it.) So one machine that runs a
proprietary OS, with a limited software base makes no sense for me. (You
got me, that describes Amiga's too, but I use my Amiga for all my daily
tasks, like telecom, WP, Image stuff, and most of my source code editing,
in other words, I use it as a multipurpose machine to glue everything
together.)
I really suspect your dollar figures too, for instance, on the 1.2G disk,
this is a third party disk, could you use it with an Indy? A lot of
machines in this class require certain kinds of disks. And how about a
decent DAT, or other type of good tape drive for backup (very necessary!).
Need a CD ROM too. How is the OS distributed, (you also need whatever
device it's distrbuted on.) Cost of OS? The diskless WS wouldn't have
much of the OS built in, so you'd need to get that too. If I'd use it for
Image stuff, I'd need MUCH more RAM (at least 128M, preferably 256M) how
much does that cost?
I don't know about the software innovation, but you haven't said anything
that overly impresses me yet about that.
I very well recognize what the INDY could do, and I also recognize that I
can do the same thing on cheaper machines, maybe somewhat slower, but
still the same thing, and don't need the INDY.
Sure, I'm a tech junky, but I don't have an unlimited supply of cash, so I
tend to buy, and use more and cheaper machines.
Bob Comer — Cruising the nets on AutoPilot from Cheyenne, Wyoming
Robert,
sorry to butt in, but I thought I should point out one item. $9,000 in
1993 dollars is only $5,400 in 1981 dollars. I can remember some
machines, e.g. CompuPro, that carried the equivalent price tag, and they
were selling as fast as they could make them. Take a break for a couple
of years and this beast could be the next appliance machine, or heck, game
machine.
At least it may be a nice indicator of where the industry is going.
Brian
No problem butting in, that's what forums are for 🙂
I even paid about $2000 for my first computer, and it had only 16K of RAM,
and no floppy!
Unfortunately, people are brainwashed into thinking PC clones are the end
all of computers, so a cheaper Pentium will probably impact any sales of
the INDY, even though the INDY is a better computer.
Bob Comer — Cruising the nets on AutoPilot from Cheyenne, Wyoming
Robert,
actually, the brainwashing is probably more on the order of the
translation of the personal computer from a tool, where price indicates
quality, to a commodity, where price indicates wasted resources. As all
Amigan's should recognize, given that shift, the better machine will not
necessarily, nor is likely to ever, win in the marketplace. Only the
enthusiast would be concerned with the quality, the regular consumer
doesn't care in the least, generally.
Brian
Yeah. Just saw a PR Newswire release over in Executive News Service, in
which Apple announces its latest stunner for the Mac: An OS extension that
lets programmers handle text-to-speech functions in their applications!
Wow! Amazing!
[P.S.: I had my Amiga SPEAK command read the press release aloud to me!
Heh-heh!]
— Ron Legro, Milwaukee
via AUTOPILOT (the only way to fly)
You must not have the latest Amiga, then… since the #$^@#% at CBM
_removed_ the speech facility in the new machines. So dont be too smug.
–Ben
…via AutoPilot
Also remeber that the indy is more powerful than one of those high powered
Pentium machines. Priced one of those lately ??? $4995 doen't seem so bad
afterall!
🙂
Robert,
You keep missing my point. I am NOT saying the Indy is for you, nor am I
saying it is for the majority of Amiga owners. I am saying that it has
the potential to be one of the biggest computer hits in the industry.
The Indy uses a SCSI-2 disk drive and off the shelf SIMM modules, this is
from my SGI rep. Yes, you can use third party disk drives in it. At
present there has been no firm decision on whether the OS will be shipped
with diskless unit or not, however historically it has on the diskless
Indigos. It came on two CD-ROMs and the same is expected for Indy.
Robert, there were some that were not impressed with flight or our landing
on the moon. I think you are missing the vision I am trying to convey.
If you are not missing it, you are denying it. In any case, the Indy at
$4995 is incrediable. That is undeniable, at least in my eyes.
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Otto Pilot Engaged..
I think your missing my point too, it's definetly not for me, but I'm not
arguing that, I'm arguing your point. I don't think it's going to that big
of a hit, because very few people will need the INDY, and only crazed nuts
like us, and the people who need it, are going to buy it.
btw, have you priced 40ns SIMMs lately? 128M would cost a LOT of money,
even 60ns RAM would be expensive, and I don't think you'd want to go
slower than that.
The Indy, at $4995 is incredible, if it had more RAM, more colors, and a
hard disk… Otherwise, I don't find it so incredible.
I'm not arguing that you shouldn't buy it, I'd even be tempted if I had
more money, but I'm pretty content with my Pocket Rocket 1200, and my PC,
so I don't think I'll be missing the Indy.
Bob Comer — Cruising the nets on AutoPilot from Cheyenne, Wyoming
I really don't think the $5000 Indy is a major event. SGI's cheapest
machine was $7000, it didn't make a big difference, nor will the same
thing for $2000 less. You have to keep it in perspective, it's really no
big deal. $2300 for a paint program also puts a dent in things.
–Paul < Motorola Inside >
The Indy is a good machine and at $5K diskless hits a good price
performance point, but I think you can tone down the hype.
"outperforms any desktop mainstream micro computer built. ANY."
The AXP 150 ( alpha PC ) from Digital cost $7K with SCSI-2, Video
card, monitor, 32 MB of memory, Windows NT development software, CDROM
and a DISK. This is clearly in the same price range as the Indy and can
beat the Indy in a number of compute intensive tasks.
Steve Peters
Steve,
"I got ya!". Since when is hte AXP 150 a "Mainstream" machine?
Grin.
Try again.
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Otto Pilot Engaged..
Well, given that at the local computer show (PC Expo) there were actually
Alpha machines on the floor right beside all the PCs, I have a hard time
not putting it in a general availability category. (If you saw the size
of the show or smallness as you may classify it, you would be even more
impressed).
John,
Ok.. Ok.. 🙂
They are mainstream, they are mainstream! 🙂
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Otto Pilot Engaged..
John,
Completely agree with you. The DEC rep I spoke to told me I could buy one
right there, off the floor, complete with late NT beta software. Sounds
likes its generally available to me, too.
//Jonathan,
\\//via AutoPilot
What about some of the DEC Alpha based systems. I have seen one for about
6k that had similar specs except that it had 32MB of RAM, etc…
-Jonathan
I dunno Robert….
The 8 bit graphics do indeed seem a little thin, but I can see justification
for this in the target market. If you are going to try and knock out Apple and
high end pc clones in the desktop publishing area then 256 colors is about all
you need standard as a base. For network video and video conferencing 256
colors would be appropriate… At least these seem to be reasonable things to
me… Perhaps I am incorrect.
As for being diskless, in the markets they seem to be shooting for a diskless
workstation would not be much of a hindrance. I could plug one into a netware
network right now and use all those expensive resources out there on the
network.
I am not sure about screens on Indy, but you can create multiple interfaces,
customized to specific applications. A click of the mouse from one of the on
screen interface icons and bing! you have that display. Keep in mind that Indy
doesn't work in different color depths – all applcations run on full color (or
8 bit, depending on your system). Lou
Sounds pretty close to what I was asking about screens, unless there is a
speed degredation when using more colors. (I don't suppose there would be,
if the video is handled like I think it is, though there are some major
cost considerations…)
Bob Comer — Cruising the nets on AutoPilot from Cheyenne, Wyoming