CompuServe Thread

#CD-ROM for Amiga 2000

33 messages in this thread
#108868From: Hilary SzymanowskiAug 1, 1993 9:44 AM
Was wondering if it is possible to use a CD-ROM drive with the Amiga 2000 – directly without putting in a PC type board ? Another question on the 2000. Is it possible to use the "Floptical" type drive with this machine, whereby one can read/write to removable media. These goodies are readily available on the PC at quite moderate prices. Anyone know the answers? Regards, HILARY.
#108876From: Jonathan HirschmanAug 1, 1993 12:06 PM
Hilary, It is absolutely possible to use a CD-ROM; I have one attached to the machine I am typing on, and with no yicky PC type board. 🙂 You'll need a good SCSI CD-ROM; I have had good luck with Toshiba and Texel. You'll need to get it talking to your SCSI setup; proper cabling and such. And, you'll need a piece of software that will allow the Amiga to read the file system on the ROMs. I would suggest the Xetec CD-ROM FS, since it works and installs very easily. However, others have reported good results with the Asimware product. Either is reasonably priced, and will give you access to ISO-9600, Mac ROMs, and lately, some kind of Photo-CD functionality. As for floptical, these have been available for the Amiga for a while as well. DMI was selling one, I believe, as was another company no longer with us. However, you should be able to buy a "bare" drive, and hook it up to any SCSI controller from a reputable company, with recent vintage firmware. I believe that both GVP and IVS support almost every type of removeable media at this point, as long as its SCSI. //Jonathan, \\//via AutoPilot
#109042From: Hilary SzymanowskiAug 2, 1993 4:31 PM
Nice to hear from you again Jonathan, and thanks for your suggestions. My basic problem is that our Amiga 2000 is dedicated to video type work – via the internal "Toaster". We do develop quite a few Framestore and IFF-24 pictures, titles and graphics. They take a lot of S..P..A..C..E on our hard drives. It would be nice to use a removable read/write type storage device. Each video project would then be an entity to itself – and keeping score of much stuff scattered on one hard drive would be partly be solved. We now have a problem in increasing the 32 Bit SIMM's on our rather old GVP accelerator memory board. We have 4 Megs installed, with room for a further 4 Megs. Problem is the SIMM's. GVP specify 80 ns. 1MBx8 nibble mode SIMM's. and tell me that they no longer can supply those! They say Nibble Mode is mandatory for additional SIMM's. Have tried "MREMORY WORLD"… but no luck. Do you know of any other probable sources? All the best….. HILARY
#109107From: Jonathan HirschmanAug 2, 1993 11:02 PM
Hilary, Honestly, it seems that you might be up a tree with the SIMMS you are looking for. Its been a while since I upgraded mine (I also have a 3001), and I can't remember who I got the nibble mode SIMMS from. Send me some E-mail next week – I have a friend on vacation that might be able to direct you somewhere. Personally, I'm thinking of upgrading to another accelerator, since I could use more CPU power, and more memory (faster SCSI would be nice, too). Unfortunately, GVP is mostly the only game in town for accelerators, and their Series II boards also use a weird/proprietary SIMM type. My friend has used non-nibble mode SIMMS with his 3001, but needed to turn burst mode off. It might be a compromise you can live with… //Jonathan, \\//via AutoPilot
#109503From: Hilary SzymanowskiAug 5, 1993 7:26 PM
Thanks for the come-back Jonathan. Developments have now proceeded somewhat like "Alice in Wonderland". To whit: I pulled one of the SIMM's that are presently on my old GVP 3001. I noted down the number of chips (There are 8), the type which is MCM514256AJ70, and the number of contacts on the little SIMM mounting board, there are 64 on each side. FAX'ed all this info' to MEMORY WORLD. They then came back with the information that the SIMM I had detailed was NOT…repeat NOT a "Nibble Mode" type SIMM. Have now FAX'ed this info' to Pete Keretz of GVP Technical Services, suggesting he call MEMORY WORLD (which is not far from GVP), and come to some sort of resolution…. so I can get on with my life! Say one puts in a NON Nibble mode set of SIMM's…. anything drastic happen? Will report on the conflict – as it develops! HILARY.
#109849From: Jonathan HirschmanAug 9, 1993 1:18 AM
Hilary, First of all, I would talk to the folks that sold you the GVP board, and get a retroactive refund. I believe that the GVP board was supposed to *only* ship with the nibble SIMMS, unless ordered with 0k. Sounds like someone was looking to improve their margin. At any rate, you already have the answer. If Memory World is correct, the board with operate without the nibble SIMMS, although probably somewhat slower. //Jonathan, \\//via AutoPilot
#108894From: Tom JonesAug 1, 1993 3:25 PM
You are kidding Hilary? Amigadom has had the floptical drives and pretty much rejected them years ago as too slow. We have had standard SCSI CD-Rom drives on 2000/3000/4000 for quite a while with two full filesystems for them and one CBM CDrom unit that plugs into the A500 expansion slot. I assume you are fairly new to this platform? It is all there, you just have to look somewhere other than the mom&pop PC store and Walmart to find it I regret to say. Tom AGA means "Amiga is Going Again" { Internet: jonest@hfsi.com 1:147/2020.5@fidonet }
#109044From: Hilary SzymanowskiAug 2, 1993 4:41 PM
Thanks for the come-back Tom. Think I should explain. We have used the Amiga 2000 for about 3 years. Our 2 machines are dedicated to video post production – by way of the TOASTER. In constructing a client's video program, we develop quite a few "Framestores" and IFF-24 images, titles and graphics. While we have quite large hard drives, the storage of many video oriented stuff is somewhat daunting. The thought was that with removeable media – say 20 to 40 Megs – we could store each clients world shaking efforts in one place. All we need is a place to dump it, and then bring the stuff out when we wanted to work on that project. Flopticle disks appeal more than plug-in/removable hard drives! Glad of any suggestions…. sources of hardware etc. Regards, HILARY.
#109051From: DKB SoftwareAug 2, 1993 5:43 PM
Hilary, You may want to consider Magneto-Optical drives. The cost of the drive is quite high, but at 128MBytes per each 3.5" disk the media cost is about the lowest you can get. (disks cost about $65-70 each) Read/write speed is on the slow side, but read speed is not unreasonable. They work great as backup devices. I currently use one in an external case to move my work files between the office and home. Dean DKB Software
#109088From: THOMAS N. WHEELERAug 2, 1993 8:22 PM
Hilary, Moonlighter Software (407) 384-9484 is supposed to be shipping a product this week called Tapeworm FS that might be of interest to you. Tapeworm FS allows a DAT SCSI tape drive to be addressed much like a hard disk. Thus directories and files can be stored and retrieved from the DAT tape. Since I have a WangTek DAT tape drive backup system, this seems like the ideal way to handle large files such as those resulting from Toaster framestores or audio digitizing with the AD516 board. I have had Tapeworm FS on order for about two months and very much look forward to trying it out. Tom
#109097From: Tom JonesAug 2, 1993 9:45 PM
Hi I was a bit off hand, sorry. The media cost of Floptical and removable HDs are both pretty steep for archival like you describe. Two ideas that come to me are that you might look at the Bernoullis for 20mb of cheap storage. New filesystems that are coming on the market use streamer tapes as real tape drives too, and a new hardware/software pack to use VHS tape drives as streamers might be appealling since you probably have lots of VHS machines and tapes, I am sure. I saw both of these in the Amiga world magazine ads. Tom AGA means "Amiga is Going Again" { Internet: jonest@hfsi.com 1:147/2020.5@fidonet }
#109109From: Jonathan HirschmanAug 2, 1993 11:02 PM
Hilary, I would consider the new SyQuests. They are *filtered* 105 meg carts, SCSI, and the drive should fit in a vacant 3.5" bay (great if you are running a one floppy 2000). Not sure what the availability is right now (should be shipping), but worth checking out. //Jonathan, \\//via AutoPilot
#109528From: Paul ToalAug 5, 1993 10:56 PM
There's a problem with Syquests though, even filtered disks crash and burn. The failure rate is 4000 times higher than Bernoulli. Pretty big number isn't it? The Bernoulli drives are cheaper after 2 cartridges at 150 megs a pop. Syquest's are nice unless you really need the data. –Paul < Motorola Inside >
#109649From: Karl F. KugelAug 7, 1993 2:19 AM
Um, where did you get your figures on relative failure rates between filtered Syquests and Bernoullis? As far as I know, the 105s are the first filtered Syquests. I doubt there is enough experience with them yet to make any comparisons. BTW, I have no failures of any kind with my (UNfiltered) Syquest 88. Of course, I don't smoke, so your mileage may vary. <g> // -Karl \X/ Amiga and Autopilot: The *only* way to fly!
#109657From: Paul ToalAug 7, 1993 4:38 AM
>Um, where did you get your figures on relative failure rates between >filtered Syquests and Bernoullis? Paine Webber had 412 Syquest cartridges die in 18 months. One Bernoulli went bad in the same time span. This Bernoulli cart failed after it was kicked down 53 flights of stairs by a bored Elevator Man. Some of the guys thought it would really survive. –Paul < Motorola Inside >
#109747From: Karl F. KugelAug 8, 1993 2:23 AM
Yeah, but none of those were FILTERED. This is new on the 105s. And who knows, it might help. // -Karl \X/ Amiga and Autopilot: The *only* way to fly!
#109704From: Steve AhlstromAug 7, 1993 3:47 PM
Karl, (As I've said before — sound like a broken record) … I've got a Syquest 44M. I smoke. The window in my office is open 9 months out of the year (ie., lots of dust), I NEVER eject the cart unless I'm swapping carts, I've had the Syquest for about 3 years, and NEVER a problem. -sja
#109746From: Karl F. KugelAug 8, 1993 2:23 AM
I suspect that Paine Weber had a lot of Klutzes using the Syquests who didn't let them spin down before ejecting them. No one I know has any trouble with them at all. // -Karl \X/ Amiga and Autopilot: The *only* way to fly!
#109848From: Jonathan HirschmanAug 9, 1993 1:18 AM
Paul, With a filter, a SyQuest should be no different than a hard drive. I also find it hard to belive that hard drives in general are 4000 times more failure-ridden than Bernoulli's. //Jonathan, \\//via AutoPilot
#109862From: Paul ToalAug 9, 1993 6:01 AM
Maybe I wasn't clear. Bernoullis don't crash, they don't know how. There was one disadvantage to Bernoullis over any other removable device but I can't remember what it was. It didn't apply to me but it was significant. –Paul < Motorola Inside >
#109885From: Jonathan HirschmanAug 9, 1993 11:24 AM
Paul, I understand how Bernoullis work…all I am saying is that the last generation of SyQuest was pretty good and cheap. The new 3.5" version is probably much improved, and will again come in cheaper than Bernoulli. The 3.5" size is pretty nice, too.
#110076From: Paul ToalAug 11, 1993 6:33 AM
The market may very well be changing. I think I have an ingrained bias though. –Paul < Motorola Inside >
#109241From: Ron LegroAug 3, 1993 9:07 PM
You might also consider Syquest 88-meg or 105-meg removeable-media drives. A lot of Toaster people use 'em. Third option: Tape Worm, a new device driver that will let you use a backup tape drive for Toaster animations and other huge files. You could get a high-quality tape drive like the Exabyte and use it like ordinary storage to load files on the fly. — Ron Legro, Milwaukee via AUTOPILOT (the only way to fly)
#109372From: Tom HarrisAug 4, 1993 8:09 PM
Hilary, I use DMI's flopitacal (its an Insite drive) its Butt Ugly slow but it is good for keeping 20 megs of stuff you don't need every day in a nice 3.5 floppy case. They do have 128 meg syquests which are supposed to be 3.5 inch although I don't know anything about them. Any SCSI device can be hooked to an Amiga with a good controller. The 20 meg disks run about $25 each or 5 for $100 at several mail order places. Most amiga mail order houses carry the DMI drive, you might get a better deal by looking thru a copy of computer shopper since the drive is an Isite drive. Tom
#109240From: Ron LegroAug 3, 1993 9:07 PM
Tom: Hey! I have a 21-meg floptical drive on my Amy and love it. Yeah, it's slow, but it makes a great backup device and I also use it to run seldom-needed software directly. I just assign a large disk cache to it, and that helps. Besides, it's a cheap alternative — the internal model only set me back about $300 and 21-meg disks are under $17 now. Plus, the drive also reads and writes 1.4K HD floppies which of course cost next to nothing. — Ron Legro, Milwaukee via AUTOPILOT (the only way to fly)
#109373From: Tom HarrisAug 4, 1993 8:09 PM
Ron, Could you please let me know where you get Flopitical media for $17. The best price i've found is $20 (5/$100) Thanks Tom
#109453From: Ron LegroAug 5, 1993 11:21 AM
Can't remember where I saw that price, Tom. I order from so many software mail houses. Perhaps Tenex? I'm sure the prices are still fluctuating depending on supply. Most places still sell them for $20-30. — Ron Legro, Milwaukee via AUTOPILOT (the only way to fly)
#109442From: Tom JonesAug 5, 1993 10:17 AM
I wasn't running Flopticals down, they have their place in the scheme of Amigalife. Didn't know the price of disks had come down though. The CBM high density floppy seems to read/write 1.44mb floppys at half speed (of course it figures when they slow down the motor). How does the Floptical handle that? My own "solution" to cheap storage was to stick a cheap RLL drive in a CBM1541 case with an Adaptec4070 scsi-rll controller and then install the XPK/XPH system on it to double storage. that is my DOCS, and ARCHIVE drive. The XPH driver also is good for such stuff as the AP "messages" directory and internet maillists too, shrivels those suckers right up. Tchutz Tom Jones AGA means "Amiga is Going Again" { Internet: jonest@hfsi.com 1:147/2020.5@fidonet }
#109472From: Ron LegroAug 5, 1993 12:13 PM
I haven't measured access times on the 1.4 meg disks in the floptical drive, but they seem speedy enough for my needs. One nice thing: The 1.4 meg size is only supported in MS-DOS format, but it's a simple thing to use such disks for Amiga storage, with CrossDOS in the operating system. Hmm, I ought to try XPK/XPH or some similar utility on the floptical. It would be nice if I could cram 40 megs onto a 3.5" diskette! I save all my AP "kept" messages and similar stuff on a document floptical, powerpacked to save 50-60%. I can search the disk for items of interest whenever necessary (there are search utilities and readers that will act directly on Powerpacked files; I gather this would work as well under XPK). — Ron Legro, Milwaukee via AUTOPILOT (the only way to fly)
#109708From: Tom JonesAug 7, 1993 4:31 PM
Ron: As a matter of fact the docs say, as I recall, that you can definately use powerpacker as an xpk compressor and point out that "if you had a CDROM with fredfish powerpacked on it, you could just lay XPH over the directory and treat it as any other disk" or words to that effect. It should work fine with a floptical I believe. One of the european packers is called NUKE and is very fast on unpack…603K/sec which is great for doc files. Another called BLZW is moderately fast on both pack and unpack, I use it on my AP/Messages directory to half it's size. Both included. They do list several utilities that use XPK compressors. I am still setting up my files with XPH/XPK and it seems to work great. If you have dos 2.1 it is easier to set up than with 2.05. 2.1 people just rename an icon and move it into the driver drawer, I have to do a lot of typing in the user-startup, mountlist, etc. Why am I so damned cheap? Tom AGA means "Amiga is Going Again" { Internet: jonest@hfsi.com 1:147/2020.5@fidonet }
#108916From: Marlene Zenker/SYSOPAug 1, 1993 4:58 PM
If you have a SCSI controller, adding a CDROM drive is no problem. I use the Toshiba 3401 and the Xetec CDROM driver software, and I'm very happy with it. Steve
#108946From: Betty Clay/SYSOPAug 1, 1993 8:22 PM
Hilary, I'm using a Toshiba CDROM drive on my Amiga2500. Just get the software driver – from Xetec or ASIMWARE or CDROMFS – make sure your drive is properly terminated and go with it. My drive was terminated as it came from the factory. Actually, I have a tape backup drive attached to the SCSI board, and the CDROM drive daisychained to the tape drive. Works fine. —Betty
#109239From: Ron LegroAug 3, 1993 9:07 PM
Yes to both your questions. I'm doing it. Happy as a clam with my floptical. There are a couple available for the Amiga; mine's a DMI. Safe Harbor and Computability are among mail order shops that handle CD-ROM drives and floptical drives for Amigas. Prices are competitive with those in PC-land. — Ron Legro, Milwaukee via AUTOPILOT (the only way to fly)