CompuServe Thread

#Samples-legal?

10 messages in this thread
#33796From: Jeff KingAug 3, 1993 4:14 AM
Is it legal to use samples from other people's mods and use them in your own? In what cases is it legal or illegal? I heard it was illegal so i would really like to know. -Jeff King
#33820From: Bob AshforthAug 3, 1993 10:37 PM
Jeff- You've hit upon one of the unsolved legal issues of our time. Rules for how many *bars* of music can be "quoted" without copyright infringement are pretty well established (don't recall how many it is, tho- <g>), but not how many seconds of sampling. It's also really a whole different ballgame, since it's not just a crude replication of a series of pitches with specified lengths, it's someone's precise "sound" which is being duped. I've heard of one rap piece which unabashedly incorporates samples of another artist's hit, inextricably hooking (pun intended) into that hit's "aura" quite successfully. Rap is one of the hot areas where this issue hits hard, since sampling is such an intrinsic part of the form. Wish I could give you a cut-and-dried answer, but since nothin's *been* cut and dried yet, I'd suggest you hop down to the library and give a scan to a treatise on copyright law. In general, it is illegal to copy a copyrighted work without the permission of the copyright owner. It's up to you if you want to err on the strict or the loose interpretation of that guideline; in the latter case, you may or may not be subject to either complaints or legal action. Bob
#33822From: Jeff KingAug 3, 1993 10:54 PM
Well, you'd think that it would be ok if you used say a sample of an instrument like a piano note wouldn't you? Does someone carry legal rights to a sample because they recorded it or because they are being recorded? Hmm.. -Jeff 'Akolade' King
#33894From: Christian BusseAug 5, 1993 6:30 PM
Hmmm… Hmmm… Well… There have been lawsuits over samples of instruments. For example, a drummer is hired (at a fixed salary) for a day or two to play in the samples – he plays in some grooves and breaks/fills (his own!) which are then sampled and put together by the producer of the record to provide the rhythm tracks for the recordings. The drummer isn't mentioned in the credits, he doesn't get a share of the record's revenues, the record becomes a hit, the producer and whoever get rich, our drummer is left with his $1000 (maybe more, maybe less). Now, maybe it depends on what it said in his working contract whether he should get a share or not. If it says something like 'the rights of the recording are with the producer' and 'all claims, current or future, by the musician are paid by the one-off salary' it's pretty clear (or maybe not?) that he hasn't any rights to the recording or any use of it. Otherwise he might/should be successful with his claim. Single instrument samples (like one tone of a piano or one drum sound) are an entirely different matter, I would say, as there is no 'artistic' act involved in producing them (A monkey can hit a key on a piano but not play 'Fuer Elise'…). So one might think that those samples a non-copyrightable – maybe they are, in principle, but once such a sample makes an integral part of a song by which is is recognized… you get the point? // Chris coming in from Germany \X/ on AutoPilot 1.06………..
#33899From: Jeff KingAug 5, 1993 10:24 PM
Well, I don't like to use samples of some recognizable part of a song, I just don't want to take the time to record a piano note, when I already have samples of a piano in half of my mods. It would turn out exactly the same anyways! I suppose that if it is a common sound or instrument it is probably alright(?), but I will probably use caution when selecting 'unique' samples in the future..
#33979From: Bob AshforthAug 8, 1993 7:02 AM
RE: Sample of a piano note being legal… Gee, I guess that would depend on whether it was at A440 pitch- that's copyrighted, isn't it? <g> (This is a recording.) Bob
#34070From: Jeff KingAug 10, 1993 3:46 AM
If i quoted your last message, could you sue me? <g> Jeff'Akolade'King
#34141From: Bob AshforthAug 11, 1993 8:03 PM
Dunno, but I hear there's litigation pending against the Grand Canyon for echoing without paying royalties… go figure! Bob
#34241From: Jeff FallenAug 14, 1993 10:20 PM
Jeff, The Copyright Laws (check your local library or the library of Congress for the latest updates) give the copyright holder the exclusive rights to reproduce a copyrighted work, to prepare derivative works and publicly distribute display and perform it. Samples can be copyrighted in "compilation" works that are formed by the collection and assembling of preexisting materials that are selected, coordinated or arranged in such a way that the resulting work, as a whole, constitutes an original work. If it's copyrighted, there is little you can legally do with a sample or anything else unless you have permission from the owner of copyright. If it's not copyrighted or published, you're dealing with matters of conscience rather than matters of law. Remember that copyrighting and publishing are two different things. Finally, check the results of CONTU (the national commission on New Technological Uses of Copyrighted Works) for copyright policies relating to data processing and reproduction technologies. A couple of books that might offer some help are the latest editions of "Copyright Handbook" and "This Business of Music." jf – lamplight productions ~~~sailing on autopilot~~~
#34315From: Jeff KingAug 17, 1993 3:57 AM
Thank you very much for the reply! I will think about this when using samples from other's work.