#VistaLite Anyone?
18 messages in this thread
VistaLite Anyone?
What is the general feeling about a "Lite" version of VistaPro 3.0?
One that would fit on a typical 2 meg 1200, and would probably
squeeze into a 1.5 meg machine in lo-res.
What features are a "must" and which ones can be done away with. Much
of the 24 bit handling will have to go, for space saving reasons. As
will the complex script language. (Makepath scripts are OK.) The Tree
panel will go, but 3-d trees will stay. (one kind at a time)
Resolutions will have to be limited, 640×400, 640×200, 320×400,
320×200. Clouds can stay. Landscapes at 130×130 points. (Will still
read exising small DEM's but scale them down to fit.)
Comments? Suggestions?
This is not to _replace_ VistaPro 3.0, but to allow those with
smaller machines to enjoy at least a portion of what the hi-end
machine owners have to play with.
One thing that annoys me with version 3.0 (and may well be present in
the 'Lite' version) is you can't stop an image rendering once it has
begun. I've played with the PC version and it can be stopped by
clicking the mouse while the half-rendered image is on the screen.
(Then I can change what I didn't like about the first image.) And
another suggestion for the 'Lite' version: Since there won't be any
24-bit images, maybe the code could be made a little 'sloppy' (less
accurate), which would speed up the rendering time. Anyone that
doesn't have more than 2 MB in an A1200 sure isn't going to have a
math coprocessor either.
You can stop a VP3 render simply. Switch screens back to the control
panel, and select abort. Works fine.
-mark=
Otto Pilot Engaged..
Clicking on the "Abort" button should stop an image in
mid-render. You can page screens with Left-Amiga M, and then click
on Abort when the panel screen it "front". So far, it looks like the
"Lite" version runs about 3x faster due to the smaller DEM. (Still
looks quite nice in HAM8.) I'm trying to squeeze a few more percent
out of it still.
Hmmm Interesting one this, as an owner of the full blown VistaPro 3.0
then it would be nice to see more users with it as it is one of my
favourite pieces of software (although still lacking IV24 support
!!!!).
I suppose the thing you would have to consider, is, would it
compromise the quality of the product ?
Would producing a "separate" version be wise ? I would assume you
would have to have some sort of upgrade plan for when people upgrade
their machine.
I suppose if their is a "must" have, then I can only think that the
Clouds would HAVE to stay, it makes the final pictures so much
better.
Otherwise I see no reason why not… I have a 1200 user here in Hong
Kong who would love to have Vista Pro (after seeing some of my pics)
but he can't get it…although as soon as he has the money he will be
getting more memory, so I would think the biggest issue is the
upgrade availabilty.
Yes, there would be an easy upgrade path. (Probably a coupon
would come in the box.) Actually, having the "Lite" version could
improve the final VP4 product, as it could bring in enough $$$ to
allow me to contnue working on it. VRLI has had quite a few requests
from people with smaller machines who want to run VistaPro, and all
they've been able to say in the past is "get more memory". I am
thinking of squeezing the image down to 32K colors, but I want to see
what the final output would look like before I do that. (Dither back
up to 256K for HAM8.) That would save another 500K of buffer space in
Hi-Res Interlace mode. Clouds can stay, they only take an extra 17K
of buffer.
I would presume the "Lite" version would sell well in Europe with the
generally "lower" spec machines that most people there own.
All sounds very Interesting…. by the way whilst I'm at it will VP4 have
IV24 support ? I know it's not one of the most widespread cards, but it
would be nice.
Either that or will there be more support for the other cards that are
coming onto the market at the moment, such as the Merlin, Piccasso,
Retina, Etc.
Tim (By the way I'm using my brothers account, which is why it says Jamie
in the header)!
On AutoPilot Over Hong Kong
Tim (alias Jamie <grin>):
Yes, the "Lite" version will sell in Europe and automatically size
itself for PAL. That will be a bit tighter squeeze, as a PAL screen is 28%
larger than NTSC, requiring 28% more memory, but I think I can still make
it work.
As soon as I get done with my current "immediate" project for WOA in
Pasadena, I will be contacting the various card makers regarding VistaPro
support. Those who are interested enough to lend me a card long enough for
me to add in the support will be supported. <grin> Hopefully I'll have a
chance to speak to several at WOA. My budget for purchasing such cards is
zero, so they will have to _want_ the support before it will be added.
Lucky you getting to go to WOA ! 😉 If you give me a plane ticket I'll
come and join you 😉 I could bring my IV24 to loan to you !
I suppose you won't have any problems getting a Picasso II, Brick has been
on Amiga Int'l quite alot, getting round the good word about this board,
certainly sounds like a winner.
To be honest I think any card manufacturer would WANT to have VP support,
it is one of the best programmes ever written for the Amiga, and could
only enhance the reputation of the card – if anything they should pay YOU
to include support – now wouldn't that be something !!
I've got an interesting suggestion for you as well for the next release,
would it be possible to add in some sort of light intensity…. a sort of
"time of day" facility, so that you could render something at sunset, or
early morning, and the light intensity & Pallette would be adjusted to
show the "warmth" or "coldness" of any particular time of day. I suppose
you could have it so that you punch in the time of day that you want it
rendering for. I'm sure there must be charts somewhere that have colour
temperatures for the different times of the day !
I know you have a night & day facility plus a light direction, but I think
being able to have more control of the light in this way could produce
some stunning results (I know you could get similar results by adjusting
the pallette manually, but this is hit and miss).
What do you think ?
Tim
On AutoPilot Over Hong Kong
Jamie:
I'm not sure where I'd put the button for the light "Time of Day".
Yes, you can simulate it now, by using Contrast and Exposure. Maybe adding
it to the IQ menu. I'll keep it in mind as I work on VP. Some card
manufacturers I am sure will want support badly enough to supply a card,
others have their "Developer's kit" which costs an arm and a leg. They
will have to wait until I am indepentently wealthy. <grin>
Clint <VRLI><Chaocity>
Jamie:
I've gotten a PicassoII card from Expert Services (US distributor), and
this card is HOT! it comes with WB emulation via a monitor file (goes in
devs:monitors), and with a 2 meg card you can do 640×480 thru 1280×1024
256 color WB screens, and upto 800×600 in 24 bit (you can't yet have a
24bit WB screen). Jim Drew maker of Emplant has already written a
preliminary Emplant driver for the PicassoII card, and while it's
currently not optimized yet, it's still much faster than the Retina driver
for Emplant, and he expects that it will be 8-10x faster once he optimizes
it!
The way the card works, it has 2 15pin vga style connectors on the card,
one is the monitor output, and the other one is an input so that the card
can pass thru the standard Amiga video, so that unlike other graphics
cards (like the Retina card) it doesn't require 2 monitors at any time.
I have an IV24 in my machine as well, and I'm using it's output as the
input to the PicassoII card, as the display enhancer built into my A3000
is screwed up (I got the IV24 at the same time as the 3000, so never
really realised it until the machine was long out of warrantee, and I
never bothered to get it fixed as the IV24 has a builtin delacer), so I
have 2 different sources of 24bit output in my machine.
Anyway, I'm sort of getting off the subject, the PicassoII card is a
really cool card, and the production version is even nicer than the beta
board I'd seen at Devcon last year!
// -Mike Schiller
\X/ AMIGA! On AutoPilot in sunny Fort Lauderdale
Mike,
What was Experts price on the PicassoII card?
Michael:
Unfortunately I don't know what the price is for 'regular' users. They
have special pricing for C= developers, and that's how I got mine. I'm
sure if you give them a call they'll be happy to tell you their price. (I
don't think it'll be more than $500.00, but don't really know.
// -Mike Schiller
\X/ AMIGA! On AutoPilot in sunny Fort Lauderdale
On the subject of VP4.0.. some additions that'd be cool are LMB for target
placement and RMB for camera placement. And while holding down the RMB and
dragging up/left the Z axis(height) increases and dragging down/right the Z
axis decreases. The same for the LMB. Also as much as i like the clouds they
all have the same type of look. I'd like to see additional algorithms for
'puffy' and 'ripple' type clouds that one often sees in the sky. And on a
final note i think it'd be neat to have a sun! ;^) I know one can place the
light but imagine being able to place the actual sun object.. i dunno how
difficult that'd be but that'd add some serious realism to already VERy
realisitc scenes!
-HELMET
Helmet:
Your requests have been captured and recorded. <grin> John will make
the final decision as to what features make it into VP4, but we will go
over all of the suggestions when deciding.
Clint <VRLI>
Clint–
I know this isn't the vendor forum, but is there any way to get VP 3 to install
on a 4000/030 with the basic 4MB RAM?? I don't play w/AmigaDOS very much so I'm
not sure if there's a way to free up enough mem to let it load (I keep getting
messages saying that I have 3MB – due to WB loading, I assume).
Just curious whether or not I need to rush out & get SIMMs…Any help would be
GREATLY appreciated
–MR
PS – Amigaman's catalog (from which I ordered) says that VP requires only
3MB… I know, I know… don't believe everything you read!
Michael:
VP2 needed 3 megs, if I remember correctly, we upped that to 4 megs
on the VP3 box. In Lo-Res, Non-interlaced mode, VP3 requires 220K of CHIP
memory and 2.0 megs of FAST memory. The biggest problem is that it needs
the memory in a couple of large blocks, so fragmented memory can result in
getting "out of memory" messages even with more than that available. In
HiRes, Interlaced, Overscan (768×482) VP3 requires 400K of CHIP memory and
3.6 megs of FAST. By running with the display off, you can save all except
about 130K of the CHIP memory. 256 color mode will eat another 512K,
though HAM8 now doesn't eat alot. (It used to need 1 meg extra) I found
that I was bumping elbows for memory in a 6 meg 4000, though I could
render 256 color images up to 800×600 (just barely). Large and Huge
landscapes will also eat more memory, as will larger image sizes.
Clint <VRLI>
Sorry to be so persistent…
But the 'not enough memory' messages I'm getting are during the install- so I
haven't even gotten the chance to play with the Small landscape. Don't get me
wrong, I'm getting more mem (in fact, I intend to max it out), I just didn't
want to get it right away. I was really looking for a way to tweak my config to
get VP up & running on 2 chip/2 Fast MB. What about installing to floppies
(ugh!)? If I booted directly from the disks, would that free up a bit more?
BTW – I really appreciate your help
–Mike Ryan