#What is MUI?
50 messages in this thread
What is an MUI? I've seen Fractint on the PC machines – lots of formulae
(FractalPro has 10 for now, but maybe more in the future) but SLOWWWWWWWWW….
generating the images! FractalPro is 100% assembly language and optimized for
math chips and 040 systems so it goes very fast compared to just about any
Fractal program I've ever seen on any system. It doesn't take shortcuts with
image quality to 'fake' fast rendering, either. For fast exploration, users of
FractalPro can simply use the 320×200 resolution and then switch to, say,
768×480 for video quality output of selected images or animation sequences.
For those animation modes for which it is possible, FractalPro does use the
Amiga blitter chip to simply move most of the image and just fill in a narrow
strip to create the next image in a sequence (most panning modes work this
way). When doing a 'left' motion pan, for example, FractalPro can generate a
series of up to hundreds of images per hour – and it even handles the
elimination of HAM streaks correctly when doing so. FractalPro does have a full
GUI (lots of buttons to click on, PLUS menu items with keyboard shortcuts for
the buttons, PLUS ARexx complete control over all functions) – basically a
3-way interface
MUI is the Magic User Interface shareware distribution. It contains a
library and a group of images for constructing GUI's. A lot of shareware
out of Germany is being program using MUI.
The Fractint Amiga port has a MUI interface. A medium size window
appears on the Workbench with a number of gadgets to control Fractint. I
have played with fractint on the PC and did not like the interface. The
Amiga version is much nicer to use. Another MUI application I have looked
at is WinGnuPlot, a version of GnuPlot with an MUI interface. Also to new
beta version on SpecialHost from the PasTeX distribution and a program I
just downloaded called DFA (a nice address manager) have MUI interfaces.
On Amiga fractint, I have done some speed comparisons with other
Mandelbrot generators. For the Mandelbrot set itself, fractint is faster
than MandelPaug, but not as fast as the demo version of Mand2000. I like
fractint because of wide variety of fractal types. I am attending graduate
school in mathematics and am developing an interest in non-linear
dynamics, chaos, fractal and complexity. One thing I wish fractint could
do is animations and I wish it had an ARexx interface.
._ _ _ INTERNET: mshea@math.arizona.edu
| | |ichael _>hea COMPUSERVE: 76665,3360
Michael,
Just testing the waters …
I've considered doing an MUI version of AutoPilot. Because it would
require an almost complete rewrite it would not be a free update but
probably in the $30 range to registered users. Should I bother?
-sja
Yes
Please bother MUI is excellent!
Thanks.
John A.
On AutoPilot all the way from the U.K.
I'm not sure what it would buy. I use MUI with Mosaic, and it doesn't
bother me (as it does some people), but I also don't see how having an MUI
version of a program that already works with gadtools would be all *that*
much of a plus.
Maybe things would be easily configurable enough that I'd be able to get
the niggly things adjusted right on a Moniterm. I guess that alone might
make it worth while.
Dale L. Larson Intangible Assets Manufacturing (info@iam.com)
"That's the best part about being crazy. You see things no one else can see."
Steve,
I think I am in agreement with Dale on this. I don't see where doing a
rewrite solely for the sake of MUI support would be that useful, as AP
already has a nice GUI. I also think I would resent paying for such an
upgrade, if for instance because at some point due to a CI$ software
change an upgrade would be required. Perhaps if a major rewrite of AP were
needed for some other reason, then would be a good time to provide MUI
support.
Take the above paragraph with the following grain of salt. I have not
played arround much with the MUI prefs program to customize my MUI
applications, so I don't really know how important that might be.
For my upcoming Mathematical Software course programs, I am real
interested in using MUI, but have not really decided yet.
._ _ _ INTERNET: mshea@math.arizona.edu
| | |ichael _>hea COMPUSERVE: 76665,3360
>>resent paying for such an upgrade
Interesting. What other piece of software do you own that has had 7 major
updates and 10 minor updates in a 20 month period for no additional cost?
Steve,
Past upgrades have provided important improvements to AP, and I would
have gladly paid for them. That I did not need to of course made me happy.
The point I was trying to make is I don't think an MUI version, in and
of itself, would be of any advantage to the user, so paying $30.00 for it
would be hard to swallow. If in addition there were some other major
features added, I would have less of a problem with it. I do not mean to
imply that your support for AP has been less than exemplary.
._ _ _ INTERNET: mshea@math.arizona.edu
| | |ichael _>hea COMPUSERVE: 76665,3360
Steve –
> I've considered doing an MUI version of AutoPilot.
How would it look and/or work differently?
$30 does not seem unreasonable to me; the regular updates could reasonably
be felt to obligate users to an occasional increment….
. . . . JimDoc, on AutoPilot
Jim,
How would it work or look differently? Well, you'd need to look at some MUI
applications and/or the example programs within the user archive of the MUI
distribution. It is basically a system of boopsi gadgets and images that
allows for resolution and font independence, user control of the gadget
imagery. It is a very powerful GUI in terms of user configuration and from the
programming side allows much more latitude than gadtools allows.
Steve –
Thanks for the MUI info. I WOULD pay for it!
. . . . JimDoc, on AutoPilot
Steve,
I use MUI and would consider a MUI version of AP. (I like the look of
MUI)
…Steve
Cruising on Autopilot
from beautiful Coastal South Carolina
Steve,
I can't provide any substantive feedback on an MUI version of AutoPilot
(or any program for that matter) because I haven't 'played' with MUI, but
you have managed to peak my curiousity about it! What are your
impressions of this MUI? Does it slow down system response in any way?
Has it been stable and does it completely cooperate with non-MUI
applications? What advantages do you personally see it offers? Is it
worth the extra disk space it is going to consume? Is it worth the
registration fee? Sorry about all the questions, but I am curious!
EdV
Ed,
MUI is (basically) a runtime library, similar to gadtools.library, that
supports a wide variety of boopsi gadgets. It is similar to what
Commodore stated they were working towards when they dropped the ball and
said (in effect) that gadtools was good enough (it is not even close).
There is no such thing as "completely cooperate with non-MUI
applications". It's a shared, runtime library.
If you are interested in MUI, and a LOT of new applications are being
written that use it, download it from AmigaTech, Library 13, and decide
for yourself.
-sja
I'd buy it.
Yes, I'd like to see a MUI version, you do good work, I use AP evry day,
much of time to gather NON Amiga stuff that I need for work. I think AP is
much better than similar programs on the PC. Keep up the good work !
Bob T.
Bob,
Thanks!
AHA, my friend. If it is fractal animation and ARexx control you want, then
FractalPro will be precisely your cup of tea! Not to mention, a true Amiga
Intuition gadget/menu interface. I'd definitely like to see MUI and how it's
used, out of general interest. I'll continue doing my interfaces in hard code
(assembler) tho. The demo version of Mand2000 MAY not be a fair comparison
unless you specifically set M2000 for 'max' accuracy and same 'count/dwell'
values. My reaction to Mand2000 demo was (and I know this comes from a
competitor) not all that positive. It was very easy to get very bad pictures
out of it (bizarrely incorrect aspect ratios) and the zooming animation is
'optical' and unsuitable for professional video. Perhaps I missed something
and am mistaken. The demo also shot so many interruption messages at me I
completely gave up doing my usual apples to apples speed comparison against my
benchmark NiceM2 image. As with some other M programs, it requires FOUR
coordinate values instead of the minimal 3 and I couldn't type 'em all in
without getting interrupted dozens of times by their promotional messages. I
have a demo of FractalPro 4 up on this forum with no such interruptions for
those who'd like to see it. It is NOT FractalPro 6, for sure, but it does work
to show basically what FractalPro is about. FP4 lacks the GUI, ARexx, 24-bit,
and is integer only (no FPU required). I disabled some aspects for the demo,
but you can play around quite a bit nevertheless. When I set M2000 demo for max
accuracy it seemed similar in speed to FP, but I couldn't tell. If you can get
M2000 to run the NiceM2 picture (a fair benchmark with very little 'black'
area) let me know. Pics with lots of 'black' area give some programs an
advantage as some programs have a special mechanism which speeds up the 'black'
areas (inside the M set) but that same mechanism ADDS overhead cost to the more
interesting pics which really DON'T have much 'black' area anyway. I found it
counterproductive to 'watch' for black areas to speed up just those areas. And
FP's calculations are ALWAYS at 'max' accuracy. For exploring quickly, just
use the 320×200 resolution … simple. And M2000 has, I believe, quite a bit
fewer 'formulae' to choose from than FP6. I am also about to add two
SPECTACULAR new coloring options to FP. Testing about completed and they are
terrific – and not available in M2000 to the best of my knowledge. Also just
shaved another couple percent off the calculation times. M2000 does look very
fast at first but I'm definitely interested in a true apples to apples
comparison on a deeply zoomed image with no 'black' – that's where most of the
time lies when doing an animation sequence anyway.
MUI (Magic User Interface) is astonishingly good and makes any application
on the Amiga look better. It's a shared runtime library that provides
"look and feel" improvements to the Workbench, and makes any application
using the library universally adjustable in preferences. Also, treats any
compliant application as a commodity. Very slick; sort of like X-Windows;
workstation quality. Runs perfectly on my A2000 with KS/WB 2.1 and Magic
Workbench. From Germany; a lot of MUI-compliant applications are now
showing up.
Ron,
Butting in here. I have an Amiga 4000-030 running WB3. I have seen much talk
of this MUI software. How do I get hold of it. Is it in the libraries here or
do I get it from Germany? What do I need to run it?
-=<<<<<< Delivered by Co-Pilot v. 1.4 >>>>>>===-Andrew Letchford=–=UK=-
The MUI system files can be fould in the AmigaTECH forum. There are two
archives, one for users, and one for developpers.
The user's version is in LIB 13 (Libraries), is file "MUIUSR.LHA).
If your a developper, there is another file called "MUIDEV.LHA" in LIB 11,
which aides in writing programs that use MUI.
Ron. – ("I'm not stupid, I'm not expendable, and I'm not going!"
– quote made by any low level RPG player.)
I'll have to ask for MUI on our next Amiga Club disk!
Daniel,
MUI is the Magic User Interface, as I recall it although I could be
wrong. It is a shared library set up to ease coding the user interface.
Supposedly it works on all Amigas, although I can't vouch for that, as it
dies a horrible guru death everytime I try to run it here.
The Four Seasons of Southern California:
Fire, Flood, Earthquake, and Riot.
Brian,
What kind of Amiga/OS do you use. I have been using it on a A2000/030
with WB2.1 and have had no problems. Which MUI applications have you had
trouble with.
Your's is the first GURU complaint I have heard about MUI. I am taking
a graduate course in Mathmatical Software this sememster and will be
programming some graphing programs on the Amiga. I am considering using
MUI, so I am interested in it's stability.
._ _ _ INTERNET: mshea@math.arizona.edu
| | |ichael _>hea COMPUSERVE: 76665,3360
Michael,
the same installation as you have, although I am running a GVP A3001
board, Retina, and Bridgeboard as well. I'm not certain, but one of the
three, probably the Retina may be choking it.
It is very strange. With MUI loaded, the system locks up during the
bootup sequence.
The Four Seasons of Southern California:
Fire, Flood, Earthquake, and Riot.
I have a GVP3001 and a Bridgeboard myself, but not a Retina. I don't know
if it could be the trouble or not.
._ _ _ INTERNET: mshea@math.arizona.edu
| | |ichael _>hea COMPUSERVE: 76665,3360
Michael,
as a followup, I downloaded MUI 2.1 from AmigaTech. I don't know why,
but the guru has failed to visit this time. I don't know what he did to
fix it, but so far it is stable. I'll give it a week, but it looks
promising already. Gorgeous is the operative word here.
If it lives, I'll register. Perhaps we should have word with him about
adding his programs to the list in SWREG.
The Four Seasons of Southern California:
Fire, Flood, Earthquake, and Riot.
Brian,
I've already been in contact with him about SWREG. You might drop him an
email to "help him along", his address is stuntz@informatik.tu-muenchen.de
-sja
Steve,
roger that. I will.
The Four Seasons of Southern California:
Fire, Flood, Earthquake, and Riot.
Brian,
I am glad you got MUI 2.1 to work. The more I use MUI the more I like
and I think I will use it in my upcoming project.
._ _ _ INTERNET: mshea@math.arizona.edu
| | |ichael _>hea COMPUSERVE: 76665,3360
Michael,
so am I. A similiar thought, project-wise, also occured to me.
Something like this would ease the coding of the user interface to a
stand-alone program I have in mind to do, soon.
The Four Seasons of Southern California:
Fire, Flood, Earthquake, and Riot.
Brian,
For an MUI application try AVM. It is a voice mail package for
Rockwell chipset modems. This program is absolutely awesome, I have been
playing with it for a couple of days and it is unbelievable the multitude
of things it can do! AVM is in the libs here (should be in
communications).
…Steve
Cruising on Autopilot
from beautiful Coastal South Carolina
Steve,
I don't know what the SupraFAXModem has. But voice mail is one of
those niches that I'll never need, for a good long time. Talk to me in
another six years. _Then_ I'll have a use for it.
The Four Seasons of Southern California:
Fire, Flood, Earthquake, and Riot.
Well, I do have a limited use for Voicemail, but have been playing with it
on my esidential phone line until I get the kinks worked out (er I
uinderstand completely how to set it up <g>), then plan to set it up for
the business line. It will sort and route voice calls for me or my son,
faxes to GPFax, or data, I can prerecord (thru the phone, digitizer or
IFF) a message for it to call at a specific time when I am not home. It
will also allow someone with the proper access code to have AVM page me
immediately after they hang up in case of emergency. It is really cool
stuff just to knock around with!
…Steve
Cruising on Autopilot
from beautiful Coastal South Carolina
Steve,
agreed! This is one example of offloading some of the routine daily
procedures off to these sweet, little microprocessors. Almost as if you
had obtained a secretary with only a slight capital expenditure and no
wages.
However, at this time, it's useless here. Not the fault of the
machine, but of my particular lifestyle (I'm beginning to hate that word
;-). A student, soon to be a grad-student, with no life to speak of <g>.
The Four Seasons of Southern California:
Fire, Flood, Earthquake, and Riot.
I'm wondering if I can do all that in Germany. It sounds great!
Rafa <Motorola Inside>
…via AutoPilot 1.72 from Berlin
I wanted to see that program (avm) and DLed MUI to use it, but when I try
to use it, it switches to another display type that my monitor wont
display.
I can't find anyway to keep this from happening. (the screen switch)
Does MUI have to change screen modes?
Can I defeat that to try the program or is it's beauty only found in a
different screen mode?
PS I'm sure you'll ask so… I have an old SONY 1302 Trinitron FinePitch.
Says it's MULTISYNC but I have not been able to use it with the better
screen modes. I just stay in the HIRES interlace.
Thanx, in advance, Zeddock
I'm assuming that you have either a A4000 or A1200.
MUI shouldn't change a program's screenmode. Do you have the Mode
Promotion option selected in the IControl Pref? Do you have the DblPAL,
& DblNTSC monitor drivers in the DEVS:Monitors drawer?
Programs select there own screenmode, but under AmigDOS 3.0, you can
intercept the programs request for most screenmodes, and substitute a
version with a higher sync (PAL to DblPAL, NTSC to DblNTSC).
There is a mode promotion program called "PPREFS.LHA" in LIB 3 (Screen
Utilities). It works better than Commodore's built-im promotion software,
and allows more modes to be promoted.
Also, if your Sony 1302 can't handle the DblNTSC, DblPAL, or Multiscan
modes as is, try placing the VGA-ONLY file in the DEVS:Monitors drawer.
This file modifies the ~27-kHz drivers into ~29-kHz drivers for better VGA
compatiblity.
Ron. – ("I'm not stupid, I'm not expendable, and I'm not going!"
– quote made by any low level RPG player.)
Zeddock
Are you using any video boards? I run everything in standard Hi-Rez
Interlace in a 030 2000, with flicker fixer. I do not believe MUI does
anything with screens. I can't run it right now to check, but if you
haven't gotten it by Monday remind me and I will check how mine is set up.
Hard drive crash last nite, and that was one of the damaged files 🙁 Just
have to reinstall it.
AVM is cool! I see a lot of power there, and seemingly well done. I
have just started playing with it, docs aren't that clear, so a lot of
trial and error!
Cruising on Autopilot
from beautiful Coastal South Carolina
Brian, just to interject that I registered MUI the old-fashioned way, then
registered MagicWB using SWREG. SWREG is outstanding; if we Amigans had
had something like it long ago, our computer platform might be in better
shape today. Hope the MUI author joins up.
Ron,
Unless you know something I don't you couldn't have registered MagicWB via
SWREG. Only 3 Amiga programs show up in SWREG with a keyword search of Amiga.
SWREG has been available for over 2.5 years.
Steve,
Which three programs are they? (other than Autopilot of course..)
Trent
One of the "Frozen Chosen"
A video tape and a video disk database program.
Ron,
MagicWB is now SWREG? Which version?
Trent
One of the "Frozen Chosen"
Ron,
I must of missed something in the docs. What was the registration
number to use for MagicWB?
The Four Seasons of Southern California:
Fire, Flood, Earthquake, and Riot.
I enthusiastically support your suggestion. With GPFax too. And so many
more.
Rafa <Motorola Inside>
…via AutoPilot 1.72 from Berlin
I'm interested in seeing MUI. Also, I should have asked Michael Shea, but I'm
also interested in seeing the Amiga version of Fractint with the MUI (more for
fractint itself, actually, as I've seen it on PC's – and I'm always interested
in other folks' fractal programs). Thank you.
Fractint is in AmigaArts Forum (GO AMIGAA)
-sja
Daniel: In your biased opinion, how does Mand2000 for the Amiga stack up
with FractalPro? If you've seen it, of course.
[a few messages later on….]
Whoops, see you responded to another query on this. I went ahead (before
knowing of FractalPro) and bought a registered copy of Mand2000. I'm happy
with it. The demo and the real program are not the same. The demo indeed
spits messages at you. Anyway, at $35, it seems like a reasonable deal to
me, for my amateur and occasional use.
IMHO, FractalPro BLOWS Mand2000 away. If you want great images, LOTS of
options, professional video quality, etc. FractalPro is the way to go. Nice
GUI, too. Have to admit, for 'casual' use, M2000 at $35 is not bad – just not
in the same league as FPro.