CompuServe Thread

#Video Toaster substitut?

7 messages in this thread
#118120From: Carlton NewtonAug 13, 1994 3:53 PM
One of the rigs we use is an Amiga 2000 with a New Tek Video toaster. We mostly use it for a switcher and character generater. 3DS rel.3 has replaced Lightwave for us, but frankly I find deck to deck editing just fine for our purposes (we're real low tech, no time time code, almost exclusively VHS output, but we do have SVHS and Hi-8 decks and cameras) I might be able to find some "obsolesence" funds to replace it. And this would be an opportunity to get a PAR (or maybe a MAX). Can any body suggest the boards (Including the PAR) that I might use in an Intel box set up that would let me accomplish: -Frame by frame video capture for later out put as video or flics -gererate titles The toaster is a great board and I dont expect to replace all of its functions, but I'd really like to have a PAR or MAX onto which I could transfer animated output from our Amigas, Macs, and Intel PC's. I was thinking a 90 MHz pentium, PCI bus, 32 Megs RAM, video board???, NTSC capture board???, Max or PAR. Any help would be appreciated, my goal here is to duplicate the Amigas's NewTech Character Generator (not necessarily do equivalent switching or try and do full non-linerar editing), get a PAR or MAX so I can see what 24bit animation really looks like, (and have another box to network with 3DS (big g).
#118181From: Don LandisAug 14, 1994 4:57 AM
You should check out the FAST Video Machine. It will do everything your toaster will do and then some. It will also be coming out with a DPR unit that will enable NLE editing as well as animation output like the PAR. It turns any windows true type font software like MS word, Page Maker, Photoshop etc. into a character generator. The CG works like a printer driver and renders the CG a hundred times faster than the toaster. Also has Inscriber for a broadcast level CG. The PAR will do more than the fast DPR in the frame grabbing department but the combo of the two is a real online/offline studio for video/animation. The Fast VM will also control decks using various time code It is a universal translator for tape formats, deck control, and audio. Will also run in the YUV component I/O with this option. Standard is composite or Y/C The MAX is also a good choice and should be less expensive than the above system but won't have the variety of features in the NLE department as the FAST system. It will do animation with somewhat higher quality than the current PAR. You will require an EISA MB to use the matrox MAX/Matrox studio system. Costs for the Fast run about $7000 for the full pro setup. plus $13000 for the NLE board for A/B roll. The PAR will run about $4000 for the complete package. Inscriber and a Jog shuttle hardware deck controller is additional $2000. YUV option board is $2500 The last I heard the MAX would run about $8-9000 and the Studio about $20000. plus EISA system costs. I don't believe the MAX and the Studio will fit in the same machine unless you can find an EISA with more than 8 slots. Inscriber is also available for the Ill Pro board which is part of the MAX but it has a ticket price of $4000, I think. Recommendation: put the video switching gear on a dedicated platform separate from a rendering/modeling platform. Network the two. Put the PAR/MAX on the rendering platform separate from the video switcher.
#118226From: Carlton NewtonAug 14, 1994 3:43 PM
Don – Thanks a lot for such a thoughtful response. Do you know who makes the Fast Video Machine and if questions about are available on CIS. I teach sculpture and video/computer graphics at Virginia Commonwealth University in Richmond, VA, and I have 24 hours to submit my request, and it has to be for equipment that is already shipping. I've read the PAR FAQ in the Lib.; I'm still a little confused about using a frame buffer with the PAR? If I got the PAR and a TBS IV card would I still need an NTSC board like the Targa +64 for color checking, etc. while testing frames from within 3DS? It seems from the threads in the MAX/PAR discussion that I would. Thanks again Don, Carlton
#118267From: Don LandisAug 14, 1994 11:28 PM
For a forum on the FAST VM GO MultiBven. The DPR Non Linear editing board is expected to ship in September. The basic editor controller and switcher has been shipping for over a year. The CG software has been shipping since MAY. As for the PAR requiring the targa+… this is not so. The targa+ will give you added features that I like to have but I could do without. I would not go out and buy one but I already had mine before PAR. At any rate there would be no need to get a T+64 as you wouldn't be using the features, just consider the targa+32 as a luxury with the PAR doing most of the work. 24 hours? Well, IMHO… your supervisor is an idiot! Expenditures of this nature should be well thought out, engineered if you will, for YOUR particular needs. I spent six months studying what would work for my needs before commiting to purchase. What works for me is certainly not going to be perfect for everyone including you. I wish you much luck because you're going to need it by making such a hasty decision. If you buy the wrong stuff what is going to be your excuse? I'm not trying to be a wise guy… just telling you what went through my mind with that 24 hour decision requirement. Can't you put in for a dollar amount and select the final list of equipment later? Or, just a vague listing of hardware and software?
#118403From: Carlton NewtonAug 15, 1994 6:54 PM
Don, Thanks Again. You are right of course, 24 hours is ridiculous. Of course what will really happen is that I'll ask for $50 K dollars and get $5,000. But I'm not as naive as all that, in general I do keep abreast of developments. Hey thats how I found 3DS! And folks on this forum to ask technical questions to! And luckily our lab goal is to provide digital and video imaging capabilities to painting and sculpture students—I can get away with lots of slack in output quality. We're content, content, content. We want to get them up and running as soon as possible and most of their out put is VHS. (Of course when I get together with my videographer friends I quickly realize that "Broadcast Quality" is one of those words with a broad definition. (g) Their stuff always looks terrific.) Anyway, my own interest is leaning more and more to 3DS as a really usable 3D modeling tool with a terrific rendering capability. My artistic interest is to use the product, and my educational interest is to introduce some digital tools to hip art students whose background is in painting and sculpture, i.e. the tools have to be user friendly enough so they can get up to speed without to much prep. I'd be happy with this round of funding to get a PAR, an Exebyte, and a 3/4" Umatic. (G) I'm not quite ready to jump on the digital video bandwagon quite yet. I have a SuperMac Digital Film Card on a MAC Quadra 950 and its been lots of fun—but it ain't BetaSP. I'm definitely interested in the MAX (Is Studio Pro still an item?) and recently took a long hard look at an AVID system with a videographer friend. My instinct tells me the AVID might be to much system for my students. Lots of different hands fiddle with this gear. I'll be checking out the FAST, and hang onto my Targa+64, and hoping for some $$ for a PAR— Now if I can get Autodesk to donate 6 copies of 3DS to my new lab I promise to do a good job teaching this hot program. (B G!) (Actually software funding is more difficult for me than hardware. Microstation just offered us Mac, Intel PC, and SGI versions of their CAD program and the administrators wonder why I want real money to buy 3DS.) Thanks again for the good info, I'll be checking the stuff out. Carlton Don, Thanks Again. You are right of course, 24 hours is ridiculous. Of course what will really happen is that I'll ask for $50 K dollars and get $5,000. But I'm not as naive as all that, in general I do keep abreast of developments. Hey thats how I found 3DS! And folks on this forum to ask technical questions to! And luckily our lab goal is to provide digital and video imaging capabilities to painting and sculpture students—I can get away with lots of slack in output quality. We're content, content, content. We want to get them up and running as soon as possible and most of their out put is VHS. (Of course when I get together with my videographer friends I quickly realize that "Broadcast Quality" is one of those words with a broad definition. (g) Their stuff always looks terrific.) Anyway, my own interest is leaning more and more to 3DS as a really usable 3D modeling tool with a terrific rendering capability. My artistic interest is to use the product, and my educational interest is to introduce some digital tools to hip art students whose background is in painting and sculpture, i.e. the tools have to be user friendly enough so they can get up to speed without to much prep. I'd be happy with this round of funding to get a PAR, an Exebyte, and a 3/4" Umatic. (G) I'm not quite ready to jump on the digital video bandwagon quite yet. I have a SuperMac Digital Film Card on a MAC Quadra 950 and its been lots of fun—but it ain't BetaSP. I'm definitely interested in the MAX (Is Studio Pro still an item?) and recently took a long hard look at an AVID system with a videographer friend. My instinct tells me the AVID might be to much system for my students. Lots of different hands fiddle with this gear. I'll be checking out the FAST, and hang onto my Targa+64, and hoping for some $$ for a PAR— Now if I can get Autodesk to donate 6 copies of 3DS to my new lab I promise to do a good job teaching this hot program. (B G!) (Actually software funding is more difficult for me than hardware. Microstation just offered us Mac, Intel PC, and SGI versions of their CAD program and the administrators wonder why I want real money to buy 3DS.) Thanks again for the good info, I'll be checking the stuff out. Carlton
#118473From: John EllisAug 16, 1994 12:31 AM
Carlton, Just noticing your comments to Don about 3DS. There are educational discounts on 3DS which are quite substantial. You might want to check with your retailer regarding this aspect. -JE
#118741From: George OmuraAug 17, 1994 7:43 AM
If you're interested in nonlinear video editing and conversion of animations to MPEG, check out FAST Electronics new Video Machine for the PC. Its an ISA product that uses 2 boards; 1 for capture and compression and another for external VTR control. It's about the best price/performance I've seen on a PC. It's basically competing with the Matrox Studio (5 boards for the Matrox product plus must have EISA).