#3D Studio Purchase
55 messages in this thread
Don,
That's a great idea, I hadn't even thought of that one. We've got some good
colleges here in the Atlanta area. I'll look into that one.
Thanks,
KC
I bought my copy of 3ds r.3 from an authorized educational Autodesk
dealer. I payed $826.50, and I asked my dealer and Autodesk and they
both said that I can use my fli's and images in a professional manner
with no problem. I go to university and didn't go through my
bookstore??? Does this mean that I have a non-student version. I got
a good deal because supposably Autodesk was have a promotion. I
can't see anything in my license aggreement that would say that I
can't provide a service to a architectural firm for money?? A reply
would be greatly appreciated
>>I bought my copy of 3ds r.3 from an authorized educational Autodesk dealer.
I >>payed $826.50, and I asked my dealer and Autodesk and they both said that I
>>can use my fli's and images in a professional manner with no problem.
Well, I can say this – if I spent nearly three grand on this software
when I could have just signed up for a two hour course at a community
college and saved thousands, I'm going to be very unhappy. If they're
really marketing full versions to anyone with a student ID for 800
bucks, why wouldn't students just buy and resell them for a profit of
a couple hundred? I could find plenty of college people who would buy
and re-sell the software to me. But I paid the big bucks because
Autodesk told me that software going for that low, student rate is
intentionally for non-commercial use, and hence is non-upgradable. To
clarify to the others, the software is absolutely the same, just the
agreement is different. I'd like to hear more about the marketing
standpoint of Autodesk. Surely they realise that with software this
expensive, they'd better adopt a consistent pricing strategy or
they'll alienate everyone…
Yes… It's true
The issue of Autodesk Educational policy has cuased a stir. Studio should sell
for $3,000 to any who would want it. I don't see a problem with selling off old
v2's for a reduced rate (and non-upgradable) but to sell v3 for $826.50 to a
student and at $2,250 – $2,995 to a professional customer is out of line.
Standing firm on this one
Dr Pixel
These issues about educational/student discounts are very interesting to me, so
I took some time off from my development responsibilities and did some research
today in the hopes of clarifying how the student subsidy program works. Bob
Bennett gave me enough information so that now I understand the details.
First, I want to express my own personal beliefs regarding the concept of
making software available to educational institutions and students at a lower
price.
– The cost of education in this country is obscenely
high and the educational process is incredibly
important. Therefore I personally believe it's essential
to be very supportive of the educational process.
If private industry doesn't subsidize the educational
system and it's all left to the federal government
and tuitions, the world would be a sadder place than
it sometimes already seems to be.
– There are ripoff artists everywhere, but you can't
penalize all the students in the world (who are
already suffering financially) because of a few
bad apples. In the best of all possible worlds,
we'd even ship without a hardware lock, but our
foreign distributors have forced us to use a lock
(or else).
– Having a group of students trained on our software
is the most effective way of filling the demand
our customers have for 3DS operators. You wouldn't
believe how many jobs are available for trained
3DS users here in the Bay Area… and there aren't
enough people around to fill the positions.
– Conversely, training students to use tools like 3DS
using the actual program is the best way to prepare
them for actually making a living once they leave
school. Students need all the help they can get
these days.
That said, here's my understanding of how the 3DS student program works.
– Starting Feb 1st, the price of the student version of 3DSr3 is $995.
In order to get this price, the prospective buyer must complete
a set of forms that verify that the student is FULL-TIME at an
accredited 4-year educational institution PLUS they must sign a document
that prohibits them from reselling the software OR transferring
the license to a business. This offer is only available thru major
universities or Autodesk Educational Resellers (not community colleges
or other institutions). if you see any R3's available thru any other
channel, it's unauthorized and ought to be reported to Autodesk at once)
– A special educational version of 3DSr2 is still available, but it uses
a hardware lock that does NOT work with 3DSr3, and the product can't
be upgraded to r3. The price of this "old technology" version
of 3DS is $395. This is what's supposed to be available through
certain college bookstores.
– In comparison, AutoCAD R12 is available through the same
educational/student program for $995, and AutoCAD R11 with the
AME extensions is available for $200. This program has been
in place for years, and there's been a very positive acceptance
of it in the market because it's responsible for training so
many CAD operators.
That said, as long as the people within the program are honest, it appears to
work quite well. And like I said earlier, I don't believe in penalizing
everyone just because a small percentage of folks are dishonest.
If you have any more questions, I'm sure that between Jonas, Brian and myself,
we can get them answered.
– G
First of all, thanks for listing the official Autodesk policy on this thing.
It would appear that the policy in effect at the present is different than what
goes into effect after 2/1/94.
Please don't respond specifically to this message Gary, because I would not
wish to tie your time up in a policy issue when you are more valuable in
keeping the development of new technology on target. I offer the following
rebuttal for general forum comments:
It was stated that the educational process is extremely expensive and industry
needs to assist students in their educational expenses. What ever happened to
the tuition process? Seems like this approach would also assist students
without setting up a communistic approach to product availability. Part of the
educational process is teaching the student to learn to survive in our
capitalistic economic business world. By offering special pricing just because
of ones occupation as student teaches the message that the student needs the
assistance of big business in order to make it. This is certainly the wrong
message as small businesses are popping up all over in this industry and are
becomming quite successful not through handouts but by perserverance and hard
work competing on a level playing field in the commercial markets, (not to
include small business competing for gov't bus. because I realize this market
is not level either)
Having students trained in your software is the best way to get get them to
make a livung… etc.
Agreed! But the way Tandy and Apple did it worked fantastically. You recall,
they offered whole curriculums built arround their platforms to schools all
over the country. Now, almost every elementary school has a computer class
built around these curriculums. (I'm not saying the platform was good, just
their concept of industry assisting students in their education) They got the
students educated on THEIR system and did it without undercutting their
distribution or putting their product on the uncontrollable student market.
Didn't Autodesk consider developing a curriculum around their products? They
could sell a classroom/lab system to the school and achieve much wider student
training level than with the practice of offering a 3DS package for $995. I
know from personal experience that a $995 purchase when I was in school would
have been just as out of reach as one for $3000. It was the academic
scholarships and part time jobs that kept me in school. This was an education
in itself, on the other hand, I don't have any education or training in the
techniques of begging on the street, seeking out handouts based on my
occupation, or working in set asside programs. My total educational process
has been that hard work and perserverance gets success.
Hey, you're welcome to your opinion about this, Don. We obviously
disagree about the need to use private industry to help students out
financially. That said, at least we can agree to disagree!
>>We obviously disagree about the need to use private industry to help
students out financially.
Not exactly. We just disagree about product price discrimination
based on occupation. I have nothing against private industry
offering tuition programs for qualified students, assisting
universities, elementary, and middle schools with curriculums, and
other similar educational programs.
When I was a Computer student at Manchester Polytechnic, UK, the
college had all the computers and software which we could use at any
time. Why do students need to buy software at all? Shouldn't the
colleges just have it? I'm sure Alias and Softimage don't have
full-blown, cheap copies of their software for students – you just
use the college's.
I took some junior college classes here in LA and was expected to buy
some software, although the educational versions were all crippled in
their capabilities. I think I'm with you on this issue.
Confused in Laguna
This is a great point. Now if I happen to major in nuclear physics,
would Westinghouse sell me a student version of a nuclear reactor?
Cool, I can now start thinking about processing my own plutonium and
send it over (fused, of course) to some countries I don't
particularly feel in love with.
Jokes aside, this is indeed a good point. It goes along with what Don
had to say about having the private industry "helping" the process.
Just make the software (and hardware, and what have you) available to
the academia (it is already in one way or another).
I attend the University of Florida, and we are a four-year, highly recognized
institution with nationally recognized programs. I am an Art major,
specializing in electronic media, which is manly computer graphics and
animation. However, in a high cost area such as this, the school for some
reason does not feel it needs to upgrade with the ever changing technology.
The PC I work on at home is way more powerfull than the Macs at school. And no
offense to anyone but I am not a big Mac fan. The majority of the programs
used are Mac Paint and Photoshop. I talked with the director and with the
chairman of the art department several weeks ago about renovating the program
and upgrading with the times and his repsonse was that university doesn't feel
that they could allocate this much money to this type of program. Here's the
real kicker, I found out that the psychology department has a few SGI systems,
for what I have no idea.
So you ask, what would a student need with such a program, shouldn't the
University provide it. You try and get someone to fund the entire program. I
have my copy of 3DS to get ahead of the game. I go to school, and I would say
I spend nearly the same amount of time working on 3DS as I do in class. I want
to become extremely proficient in my work and if going on my own is the only
way I can learn, so be it. I am extremely thankful for the student price
because I never would have been able to afford 3DS otherwise. At least now
when I go out to get a job I will have a head start on every other individual
whose school decided to spend their money on "nuclear reactors" instead of the
art department.
Sorry if I sound harsh, but I feel very strongly about this. Without chances
like these, I would have to enter the job market years behind in experience,
and I don't like playing catch up!
Andrew
Martin: In 100% of the cases of students wishing to purchase this
"student deal" of 3DS that have approached me looking for information
on how to do it they wanted it to be able to offer animation on the
commercial market to supplement their income. Although they
currently have access to college facilities to do this commercial
work they have trouble scheduling these work projects in the school's
computer lab and still meet delivery commitments to their customers.
As I previously stated, students that have an extra 750-$1000 dollars
to spend on a personal 3DS copy certainly can't come crying to me
about being a financially strapped poor boy. The real motive here is
the student sees an opportunity to go into business with low startup
costs by using his occupation as a student to this advantage. Again,
I hold no animosity toward any enterprising individual for taking
advantage of this or any other legal offer to go into business. I do
feel that this offer constitutes an unfair discriminatory pricing
structure based on ones occupation and feel Autodesk would be better
served by assisting students and the educational process in more
traditional, proven ways.
Come on folks – lets get real, or did anyone go to college around
here? I don't know about the rest but I was either in class, studying
or taking tests, and the rest of the time I was working. If I'd had a
copy of 3DS, sure I might have thought about making some money with
it, might even have bought it with that intent. But seriously, what
do you think a college student would be able to do with it? Make some
flics for a school project? Anybody with 3DS knows it takes hard work
and determination to master it, which takes time and practice. Once
that's done, one needs a fair amount of equipment to produce something
which as we all know is not exactly cheap.
I say give them the discount and let them make some money with it,
maybe they can pay back their initial investment. But if anybody
thinks this discount is going to have an impact on their business as
a professional, I think they ought to re-evalute what their doing in
the animation business in the first place. And this opinion comes
from one who has had to compete against UCSD, Alias software,
super-computers, high-end video equipment, cheap labor and on
occasion lost the bid. If the impact, that a 3DS discount to students,
is going to make that much of a difference to my business, I
obviously don't have the talent to make a living at it.
I for one welcome the discount, because it will create a stronger
market base, provide a trained resource, and more than likely – more
business, as people realise the effort, equipment and talent needed
to provide a decent product. FWIW
On many software products, I don't see the point of educational pricing. Some
Internet whiners look on it as a heaven-ordained right. I'm amazed at the
amount of software available at the UW-Madison student bookstore. But some
software is consumable, and someone's "training" on it does not create any
loyalty. In fact, I'd argue that educational pricing only encourages people to
be loyal to any company that offers below-market rates on software.
And I second the notion that software isn't a good investment. It's true for
everyone, not just students. Should the average person with thousands on their
credit cards be encouraged to spend $2000 on a 486 with software that'll be
darn near worthless in 18 months (especially in terms of techno-lust :-)?
On the other hand, I spent $1000 (cash not credit) on a Commodore 64 while I
was working my way through college. I was already working as a programmer, but
it led to a C-64 game programming job, which turned into my first full-time
job, and put me on the road to self-employment.
I'm glad to hear that we partially agree with each other. We just disagree
about how to implement student support.
– G
Cheers to that, Gary. I think students ought to have access to the tools they
will use in their professional life. Educational institutions are having a bad
enough time getting funds from the government, at least the private sector can
step in and make a difference.
I have no resentments against any student who pruchased 3DS on an educational
discount. I support it 100%.
John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
>>I have no resentments against any student who pruchased 3DS on an educational
discount. I support it 100%.
Just for the record, John, I also hold NO resentment for any individual,
student or not, for taking advantage of any deal that is offered if it is
legal. I only support it from the buyers prospective. I have personally,
encouraged several students in the area to take advantage of this. What I
object to is the sneaky way Autodesk went around their dealers to offer this
thing. I know this concept is difficult for liberal mindsets to comprehend but
it is just my philosophy that handouts, like welfare, breed a generation of
dependents who feel that they won't make it unless someone better off gives
them a free head start. Eventually, programs like these become viewed as
entitlements, and, then they become mandated by law, regulated by the
government. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if a student wants 3DS
badly enough , he goes out and gets a part time job, maybe selling 3DS for a
dealer and the dealer let's him purchase it for his cost whereby that cost was
earned through commissions or hours worked then I think education is at its
finest here. But, if a student gets the idea that big wealthy software company
owes them because "they are the future" and offers below dealer cost discounts
to students, then I view this as just another form of welfare which circumvents
part of the education process, screws the dealers, and helps develop a
generation of students with an attitude that because they are in a learning
pursuit that they are owed a free ride by those that use the product to make a
living.
Would a school like UCLA have r3 available to students??
UCLA is an accredited 4-year university, so I'd suppose that they
would.
Thanks, Gary. We've had a few questions on this issue down here in SD.
One thing, though: Can these packages be legally used for *profit*,
or not?
My guess is that if the license was not transferred to a business, the
student could do anything he wants with it. (ie, use 3DS to help put
him/herself through SCHOOL)
Yea…
Oh, Yea…
An answer… an answer… I am overcome with joy… And I'm going to enroll at
a 4 year Uni ( Wink, wink )
In the happy state
Dr Pixel
That's my alma matter… "Whatsamatter U", Rocky.
– G
Dr. Pixel,
>>Standing firm on this one
It's that summo suit again isn't it! <GD&R>
Chuck
<<Well, I can say this- if I spent nearly three grand on this software when I
could have just signed up for a two hour course at a community college and
saved thousand..>>
You have to be a student at a major university….
todd manus
So what is a major university vs. a minor university? I didn't know there were
academic distinctions like this. Is it how well the university placed in
collegiate football? Sounds like as good a criterion as any. <G>
Yea…
So does this mean that West Virginia can't get v3 for students but Notre Dame
can? As a dealer, I think they should allow only bowl winners to get Studio.
It'll make more sense to go play the "Tide detergent nothingness bowl" if you
could buy Studio for $826.50 cuase you won…
Since the UW is on probation, I can run Studio, I just can't render…
Dr Pixel
You make it sound like it is my fault?? I just took the time to investigate on
the availablity of 3ds3 rel.3. Please don't be anger with me, its not my
fault.
Todd Manus
Todd,
Since I'm the originator of this message on how to find a good price on 3D
Studio, looks like I've sturred up quite a bucket of worms!!!
I can't believe it's gone this crazy!!!
Yowza,
KC
Welcome to the forum, Kelly. Stirring up the sh*t is half the fun <g>! You
should have been here for the great "how many pixels in a line of resolution"
shootout. The bodies are still warm <g>.
John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
John,
I gotta admit. . .this IS fun! I'm hooked now for sure!!! My husband is
beginning to wonder if he'll ever see his wife again!?
I should have said, "Welcome to the Asoft forum's Black Hole of
Social Gravity".
>> Is it how well the university placed in collegiate football?
This is great! Maybe we have to send our SAT scores before upgrading to R4! <g>
SAT scores? Does that mean that if you scored high would you have to pay more?
You know, the ability to do better therefore the ability to pay more. Sounds
like communism, doesn't it?
Don:
>> You know, the ability to do better therefore the ability to pay more.
I love it! Have you read the classic "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand?
(It was the follow-up to her "The Fountainhead", which should be read
first, but doesn't have to be.) If not, you should! Seriously,
you'd love it!
Greg (Who is John Gault?) Pyros
PS – Any was it just a coincidence that Hank Rearden and Howard Roark
had the same initials?
Hey Greg,
At last I can correct someone on a "technical" matter:
I may not know much about AME or pixels-per-line but I do know how to spell
John GALT! It's GALT, not "Gault."
Alec Jason (Past President, San Francisco Ayn Rand Society)
So who _is_ John GALT? <g> That's one my spelling checker didn't
catch! WEre you really president of the Ayn Rand Society? I knew
there was something about you that I liked! <g>
Remember "The Virtue of Selfishness" Also, has anybody seen the
message "Error: choice 71** not found – Continue? when escaping out
of or completing a net render? Hitting "Continue" causes the number
to cycle,…..but a hardware reset is necessary to get out. It's
happened on servers and workstations both.(Lantastic 5.0) Not
repeatable or consistent and not .prj specific. Ideas?
Zounds! Ayn Rand! Flashbacks to years ago – someone gave me one of
the books and I woke up exhausted some time weeks later having read
everything she she'd written. It was like a dream. Rational
selfishness… Powerful stuff – hit me like a ton of bricks. JKJ
JKJ:
Yes, I know! My father read "The Fountainhead" when he was a wee youth, he
said it was one of the reasons he became an architect! I have a fancy 25th
anniversary edition of it – can you believe that it was written in 1943? 51
years ago this year? And just as current today…
I've picked up both that and "Atlas Shrugged" so often that I can open either
to any page and start reading, and know exactly where I am and what is
happening! (Not bad for two books totalling over 2,000 pages or so!) Isn't
that novel? <g>
Greg Pyros
Thanks for the suggested reading. I'll put it on my list of reading to do.
Don:
As you can see from the responses here, it is a very popular (and powerful) set
of books!
Greg Pyros
I don't particularly like to label this or that as communism or
capitalism, or what have you. This brings discussion away from the
main point as people tend to bring emotions before reason. It's like
discussing abortion among nuns.
What I do think about this however, is that it's interesting to
notice how everybody wants to make it rich. It's in almost everyone's
mind to get as much money as they can so they can do whatever they
wish with the money. Fine. At the same time however, when someone
happens to achieve that, he or she becomes hated for being "wealthy".
Soooo, it's only ok when "I" have money but it's not ok when somebody
else makes it. This line of behavior gets extended to all kinds of
things, including this "I need it cheaper because I'm a poor
student". The minute this "poor" student becomes a money making
business person, this turns around rather quickly. It was ok when he
was a student but not anymore…
I see this rather simplistically. Like you, I just think people have
a tendency of whining before thinking. It just takes longer for some
to be totally weaned I guess. Some never do.
>> Maybe we have to send our SAT scores before upgrading to R4!
Be careful there! If the price was higher depending on how well you
did, you probably wouldn't be able to afford R4! <bg>
>> Be careful there! If the price was higher depending on how well you
>> did, you probably wouldn't be able to afford R4! <bg>
He, he, he… Yeah, right…. <g>!
Another note that seems unfair. . . The company I work for was able
to get r2 (back before r3) at a better price than other smaller
companies. We bought it directly from Autodesk for about half of the
standard dealer cost. Supposedly they drastically reduce prices for
SUPER LARGE corporations, I'm not sure why. Is it because there might
be the possibility for future purchases, since larger corporations
have bigger budgets, therefore being able to buy more?
PMJI, but what you are referring to would be the AutoDesk National
Account Agreement. These agreements are drafted between AutoDesk and
the company in question. In exchange for agreeing to purchase a
SIGNIFICANT volume of AutoDesk products (I believe 50 units is the
minimum) over a preset period of time, they are extended a discount
and the opportunity to purchase directly from AutoDesk. The bigger
the commitment, the larger the discount. I believe that Boeing and
Southwestern Bell are two of the most deeply discounted clients. The
true windfall is for subsidiaries and "sister" companies, as they are
extended the same discounts.
As a dealer, I support fully the national account program, as the
supporting dealer is commissioned back a percentage that is usually
in excess of what he makes on the street. As close as we can get to
a win/win situation in these crazy markets today!
That all makes sense. But the only thing is, as far as I know my
company (Georgia Power) only purchased, at most, 5 copies at that
particular time. But there might have been more purchased elsewhere
in the company.
Does youze thinks me can get it fer hundred $ as I dident do so hot on verball
SAT. me scorred a 50.
>> Does youze thinks me can get it fer hundred $ as I dident do so hot
>> on verball SAT. me scorred a 50.
Hey, that's at least 100 in my book. Just look around! (Though it
sounds a little like cookie monster to me) <g>
Yo, thread master… I guess it's time to move us over there to bozo
land section before the forum police reads our rights (would that be
the Miranda or Mylanta…)
Nah Gus,
No way. This is just too entertaining…….<grin>.
This is the same deal I received. I also saw no mention of a student version,
just the discounted promotional price. I read through the license agreement
and there was no mention of student use at all.
I called autodesk and they said they would get back to me. I were not really
sure themselves??? I am not trying to create a stir, but I need to know….
Todd R. Manus
>> I am not trying to create a stir…
Why not?! <g>