#The Flyer
13 messages in this thread
I just got back from Orlando and had a chance to see the Flyer first
hand. The program that was being demonstrated was still a BETA
version. It did not have all of the features installed and the NewTek
rep. said that it is still under development. They expect to start
shipping to dealers in October.
However, what I did see looked just great. The quality of the picture
was excellent. I could not detect any strobing of any kind. The
resolution was excellent.
What I did learn is that the sound portion of the Flyer will not have
a lot of control. You will probably have to purchase a third party
product to have a full scale sound editor.
When I asked about slow motion and reverse motion, I got an answer
that I did not completely understand. It seems that you will be able
to do both of these, but not in real time. I think what I was being
told is that you have to create the slow motion or reverse motion
effect and then render it. Once rendered, it will then playback in
real time. As I said, the answer to my question was a bit fuzzy.
However, you can load an entire tape into the Flyer and then go in and
break down scenes. You create an insert by running scene A from the
point you want to start to the point you want the insert to occur.
Then you drop in scene B and run that for the length you want. Then
you duplicate scene A and go to the frame that you want to continue
(after scene B) and use that as the starting frame. You can then move
scene B to start anywhere you want in scene A. So, it is true NLE,
but maybe not the same way it happens on other systems. However, I
find this way of editing easy to understand.
While I was at the conference, several people told me that I was going
to need all kinds of extra equipment to run the Flyer. So, I asked
the NewTek rep. exactly what I would need for my system. My system
is an Amiga 4000 with an 040 speed. I was told that all I'll need is
the Flyer software, the Flyer board and external gigabyte hard
drives.
Oh, here was something else that I learned. The Flyer board has a y/c
input, but the output goes through the standard Toaster board output.
So, if you want to have both y/c in and out, you need to buy or have
a board like YC Plus or any other product that has YC in and out
capability.
Somewhere I thought that I read that the Flyer could do this, but it
can't.
Fred, I didn't discuss it with the NewTek rep., but my understanding
from NewTek previously, was that the Flyer physically had a Y/C
input, but i it was unlikely that they would actually support it. Did
you hear otherwise? Regards, Gary
From what I was told, the Y/C input was there and he (NewTek's rep)
thought it was going to be hooked up. He was a little vague and
unsure about this, so your information may be correct.
Did you get the feeling that they still have a ways to go in finishing
the Flyer. For a product scheduled to be released in two months, I
would have thought that it would be completely finished with just
some cosmetic touches to apply. But, I think that they are still
deciding what it will and won't do.
But, maybe this is the way NewTek works. I didn't buy my Toaster until
the 4000 appeared a year ago. Is this how the first Toaster appeared
on the market? It worked, but until you got one, you had no idea of
what it would do?
Fred, The biggest problem in developing software is to figure out
where to draw the line on the current release. Otherwise, we would
never see the finished product because (hopefully) it will never be
finished. I'm sur that the what we saw in Florida wasn't the absolute
current version at the moment. Regards, Gary
Gary,
You are right about where to draw the line. Almost like editing a video. Some
clients never know when to stop.
My only real concern right now is figuring out what I need to install in my
Amiga 4000. As you recall, to get Y/C out of the Toaster you need something
like Y/C Plus. That's one card. The Flyer takes up the last remaining card.
Then if I want to install any kind of audio mixing software, I'll need to
install another card.
I know that there are products that expand the number of cards you can
install, but I was hoping to avoid the extra expense. I think I'll
just wait for the Flyer to arrive and then see what I really need.
>Is this how the first Toaster appeared on the market? It worked,
>but until you got one, you had no idea of what it would
>do?
Fred, That is exactly what it was like. I have also seen the
Flyer Demoed lately, and was even told that it was the same
software/Hardware that Was shown at NAB almost six months ago. The
unit was in an A4000 with the cover off, across the top of the unit
there were two 4 inch cooling fans. It looked like the dammed thing
was doing to take off like a helicopter. Maybe that's were it gets
it's name? The thing that scares mew is that when the toaster 1.0
was released it was almost two years behind schedule. I can not
imagine that they would be that far behind with the kind of noise
they'er making but I do know that it wont ship till Tim is very happy
with it. Brad Hayes H.V.C.
Newtek shipped probably 1000s of Toasters with Beta s/w to anyone who
would buy them. It was a couple months before they released the 1.0
s/w. There was no charge of coarse. I was happy to get one anyway,
like many people. They were *Demoing* it for years, Litterally!
The Flyer will probably ship with immature s/w when ever it ships. I
remmember when Toaster 2.0 s/w shipped Newtek said the Toaster s/w
was only utilizeing about 50% of the available h/w on the on the
original board. or something like that. Maybe the Flyer implements
some of that h/w.
It was a Happy day when I called Newtek they finally took my order for
a Toaster and shipped it. It will be an even happier day when I
receive MY Flyer, and realize some of the things I've been wanting to
do since I got my Toaster. Online Desktop, You gotta love it :^)
Thanks for the flyer update. I hope to get to see one at a show this
weekend. Your insert edit example really sucks, if that is the way
it works. How do you do a video insert from B source for cutaways,
and keep A's audio track intact throughout? If you really have to
"make a copy", then they have committed programming suicide for a NL
system. They must not be using pointers to various sections of the
video. There should only be one copy of each clip, and the edit list
internally contains pointers to various portions of digitized video.
I can understand that since they are using the toaster as a switcher,
that A/B rolls could require some duplication, but only for the
duration of the transition. It sounds like it may have good picture
quality, but it will truly be a poor man's NL in terms of features,
etc…(as you mentioned with the audio). The original toaster was
delayed as they improved and worked on it before release. I would
rather have a flyer that was a good sound system and wait until
January to get it, rather than get it in October, and then have to
pay them $500 to upgrade it to what it should have been in the first
place. Just my 10cents worth.
Brian,
I've never used a NLE. It sounds like you have. From the video tapes I've
received from Avid and the one demonstration they gave me, it sounds like they
use something called a "timeline".
Am I correct that you start at some point on that line and move a scene to that
point. Then if you want to insert another scene in the middle of the first
scene, you just go to the place of the insert and bring down the proper scene
and the first scene automatically opens to allow the new scene. Kind of like
film editing.
That was what I thought the Flyer was going to do, but what I was shown was
that you had to duplicated the first scene. Now, I was told that the duplicated
did not take up any additional space on the hard drive, so maybe, it is not
really adding a second copy of the scene.
The effects are done by placing in scene A then selecting an effect
Icon and placing that at the location of scene A when the effect is
to start. Then place in scene B. The overlap is done automatically.
The unit that I saw in Orlando, did not have any sound attached. I
wonder how they handle the sound. Years ago, I saw one of the first
demonstrations of the CMX editing system for film. You used a light
pen on a computer screen to select a scene number. It looked like a
very fast way to edit film, by first transfering everything to large
magnetic disks and then editing on a computer. However, all of the
sound cuts were straight across with the picture. When I asked how
you were suppose to lay in additional sound, I was told that the
system was not designed for that.
I hope the same is not going to be true with the Flyer. I get the
feeling that I may be ending up transfering a finished program from
the Flyer to tape and then doing an A/B roll mix of sound onto the
finished video tape. Then putting that finished track back into the
Flyer.
I hope not.
But, whatever the Flyer turns out to be, I'm going to have to live
with it for a while. It is all my budget could afford right now. The
next level was the $25,000 systems and they also have their short
comings. I realize to do it right requires about $100,000, but that
is a little out of my range.
The Flyer will support multiple audio tracks and split edits. Regards,
Brian:
From the demos I have seen, the way that you can do the edit you
mentioned is that the Flyer keeps a portion of disk space free,
sort'a like a clipboard. As you place the clips in order the system
looks for problems that may occure, and will copy a portion of video
to the free space if needed. The A/B concept is purly a
simplification for explaning how it works. In fact the video is
digitized to both drives at the same time so split audio or disolves
between the same footage will be posable. If you are doing cuts only
the flyer can jump around on a single disk. It's when you start
doing transitions that you need two disks.
The "make a copy" Stament refers only to the clip Icon, not the
footage it's self. As for the sound qualtiy of the device I don't
think you will have to worry there either. However the Studio 16
board will offer you alot more opptions. This is Flyer 1.0, remember
the Toaster 1.0? If I had known then what it dose now I would have
been very disapointed with that version.
Fred,
Thanks for all the Flyer details! How'd those little picture croutons look?
Jerry
They are pretty good…quite adequate for defining video clips. Regards, Gary