Video Toaster substitut?
28 messages in this thread
Carlton,
I agree with Don. A decision like the one you have to make is an important one
and having watched your efforts to find the best product for your needs, I
sympathise with your situation.
From a psychological point of view, I would recommend the MAX. Its the most
expensive alternative and will require that you get an EISA based system and
Adaptec SCSI controller along with a Seagate Barracuda drive. However it will
do everything you've asked including DVE and titling with Inscriber, pretty
much replacing your Amiga.
The caveat here is that, if you had more time, you might be able to realise
some savings by going the PAR route. But if the bottom line is, your job is on
the line and expectations are high, and money is no object, then you really
have no choice. It'll be hard for anyone to argue against your decision, as you
have a DDR style system with the ability to paint in a dedicated framebuffer
and titleing software etc.
With more time and due consideration however you might find that the PAR will
do what you need with what you've got.
I've learned that in situations like this, you want to get the best "system"
money can buy. If they balk at the price, then you can tell them you're going
to need more time to come up with a more cost effective solution, otherwise you
can't be expected to be responsible for the result.
Good luck.
-JE
John – Thanks for the advice. Luckily I've got a Gateway 486-66 EISA with an
Adaptec SCSI controller. I dont know if the controller will work the Baracuda.
But that sounds real interesting.
The way the bureaucratic game works around here is that I'll ask for $50K and
get, sometimes, $5K. I know the pot of $ this time around is small so $5K
might be our fair share. Luckily I ask for the $ for specific equipment, and
then if any $ comes through I get to buy an item or its equivalent from my
original request list. So I always wait for the $ to make my real decision.
But wouldn't it be nice if we knew what we had to spend, and were given a
couple of months to do the research.
I'm sold on 3DS. The interface, the modeling tools, the rendering
capabilities. Rel.4. Its quite a bundle and I really want a decent way to
output those targa animations. I'd also like to condense the number of
platforms we're running and reduce the number of software packages we support.
I seem to spend all my time making it work instead of working on what it
says…
But I've downloaded a bunch of info and dug back into my files; so I think I'm
prepared. I certainly wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything.
Thanks for your advice.
Carlton
t
Carlton,
You seem to be in fairly good shape, maybe I should say excellent shape
considering what you're up against.
I know exactly what you mean about supporting a bunch of different platforms.
Each has its own quirks; having to do animation is complex enough without
having to worry about equipment all the time.
Sounds like you've got a good strategy, and quite frankly I think you'd be
happy with either the MAX or the PAR, each has its own advantages and strengths
but both will do the job well.
>> I'm sold on 3DS. The interface, the modeling tools, the rendering
capabilities… Its quite a bundle… <<
Absolutely, and with the open architecture nature of 3DS; and it really is open
now with IPAS 3, you don't have to wait for the next release to see a third
party contribute a new technology. As you may have noticed, the Yost group is
also very generous with code, most recently the Gouraud RT Shader. To my
knowledge this is unheard of in the industry. And it just keeps getting better.
Best of luck, I'll be interested to hear how things develop for you.
-JE
Thanks John, I'll let you know how things go.
You may indeed hear me hollering for help before all is said and done.
(G)
Carlton
"You may indeed hear me hollering… <<
Holler away… <g>
-JE
John-
I'm looking into the educational discount stuff now.
Thanks again,
Carlton
If you've got an Adaptec 174x or 274x series controller you're in buisness.
These are the only two controller cards currently working with MAX, because MAX
software directly accesses the controller's bios to get the phenomenal 4.5 meg
per second throughput off one Seagate Barraccuda drive.
John Tissavary (LUNA cie, inc)
John,
Thanks for the Adaptec controller info. I'll check it out. I off to get a fax
from Murph' and then finish my ordering from my office. Everyone's help here
on the forum has been very valuable. It will probably be two months before I
hear the results of my request. But I'm hoping that bit by bit I'll put a
system together.
I'll let everybody know what happens.
Carlton
Hey I have a 1742 in my eisa 486, I had planed to install a STUDIO in the
machine but the cost of the thing got way out of my reach how much is a Max
setup? and can I still have other non Max disks on the controller?
MAX lists for @ $7000, but you need to supply the HD controller, Seagate
Barraccuda HD (no others will work at this time), and EISA MB.
MAX is really a different product than Studio – as a matter of fact it is PART
of the non-linear STUDIO setup. It is a digital disk recording setup similar
to the PAR.
John Tissavary (LUNA cie, inc)
7 bigones is still out of reach right now but I will get a digital disk
recorder when I can and the MAX seem like a good one,. One more question does
the price include a ILpro borad or must you have one already. I want to get a
ILpro borad for my Work station before get a MAX. I have a Targa now and want
to move into higher 32bit res's for NTSC stuff.
Richard,
PMJI but yes the Max does include the Ill Pro in the price. If you want to
upgrade from a Ill Pro you need to make sure that you get the CCIR 601 board
which has rectangular pixels like the Targa for NTSC output. It has a 720×486
resolution.
John
Yes I would like to get a ILL pro CCIR601 that was the first board I looked
into, but there were sooo many options for the ILL board I went with a Targa+
instead. Now I want an ILL pro more the ever. I'll have to see how thing go
the next few months, I'll upgrade to R4, get a backup device and a Tablet
before I upgrade my framebuffer. I have notice that animation is kinda like an
arms race and I have to keep up my arsenal.<BG>
Richard,
>> I have noticed that animation is kinda like an arms race and I have to keep
up my arsenal. <<
How true, although I prefer to think of it as keeping my pallette competitive.
<g>
John (Ex-GI gone artist)
I say that in a nonagressive way, but in a competive nature. I still have
a lot to learn and but the time I do learn my equpiment might be outdated
abit.
Richard,
>> I say that in a nonagressive way… <<
I totally understand. <g> And actually it was very accurate.
John
Looks like several folks have chimed in on your question. I don't really have
anything to add other than that I really like the MAX.
John Tissavary (LUNA cie, inc)
I have been reading your various posts on the MAX, and you seem to be the forum
expert. I am just sort of thinking out loud, here, but do they plan to develop
a PCI version of this thing? Seems to me like EISA will be going the way of the
dodo before too long.
I'm sure EVENTUALLY there will be a PCI version, but according to the
developers of both the hardware and the software (two completely unrelated
companies) the PCI bus was too loose when they were developing their respective
parts. I'll bet sometime next year PCI ddr's will come to market. I have
several EISA machines, though, and really love them. I would get an EISA/PCI
machine over an ISA PCI machine _ANY_ time. I hate ISA.
John Tissavary (LUNA cie, inc)
I am no great ISA fan either, but between the two (ISA/EISA), it seems that
eisa is going to bite it first. an all PCI board would be nice. Not gonna
happen any time soon though…
>> an all PCI board would be nice.
>> Not gonna happen any time soon though…
Just curious why you say that an all PCI board will not happen, at least not
soon? Is it some funtion that cannot or will not be on a PCI card? If so, why
not?
Just nosey, as usual <g>.
There are too many companies that still only make ISA cards. If someone has an
all PCI board out now, you can put your video and scsi controller cards on it,
but what about scanner cards, motion capture boards, mouse boards, voice mail
cards, etc? Gotta wait for all the little stuff to catch up, or you will just
have a fast motherboard and nothing to install beyond the basics. I don't see
this happening any sooner that 18-24 months at the most otimistic.
>> … but what about scanner cards, motion capture boards,
>> mouse boards, voice mail cards, etc?
Well Ok, I agree that there is not a complete array of PCI cards yet. But
some of the people here have machines that are graphics dedicated and at least
one other machine for the items you mentioned. So as long as there is a PCI
network card, one could go all PCI right now, don't you think?
Hi! I'm back from vacation and just downloaded 3 hours of reading from
this forum and three others I frequent. <G>
I was wondering why all the discussion about whether or not Matrox will
make a PCI version. Most of the competition seems to be developing special
HD interfaces optimized for the speed required by video. Seems to me
Matrox would be wise to go that route to simplify their lives as well as
ours in using the MAX. Can you offer some rebuttal to this concept? Seems
that Matrox's market would expand too.
Hope you had a good vacation, welcome back. I've been off the forum somewhat
myself, and the traffic just gets unbelieveable!
I know Matrox is planning a PCI product, but I have no knowledge of details, or
when it will be available. When they were developing the MAX, PCI was still
too wobbly, according to them. I agree that it's the way to go.
John Tissavary (LUNA cie, inc)
<<Hey I have a 1742 in my eisa 486, I had planed to install a STUDIO in the
machine but the cost of the thing got way out of my reach how much is a Max
setup? and can I still have other non Max disks on the controller?>>
MAX hardware and software bundles:
ALL ARE COMPOSITE, Y/C AND COMPONENT IN
Composite and Y/C out $5995
Composite and Y/C out (with ability to output Windows as video) 7495
Composite, Y/C & component out 6465
Composite, Y/C & component ou (with Windows as video) 7565
These are NTSC video standard. We also have PAL versions available. If you
already own an Illuminator-Pro graphics card, there are MAX upgrades for less
then the above prices.
Hope this helps.
Alan M. Vernick
Southeast Regional Manager
Matrox Video Products Group
Hey Al,
John – Thanks for the advice. Luckily I've got a Gateway 486-66 EISA with an
Adaptec SCSI controller. I dont know if the controller will work the Baracuda.
But that sounds real interesting.
The way the bureaucratic game works around here is that I'll ask for $50K and
get, sometimes, $5K. I know the pot of $ this time around is small so $5K
might be our fair share. Luckily I ask for the $ for specific equipment, and
then if any $ comes through I get to buy an item or its equivalent from my
original request list. So I always wait for the $ to make my real decision.
But wouldn't it be nice if we knew what we had to spend, and were given a
couple of months to do the research.
I'm sold on 3DS. The interface, the modeling tools, the rendering
capabilities. Rel.4. Its quite a bundle and I really want a decent way to
output those targa animations. I'd also like to condense the number of
platforms we're running and reduce the number of software packages we support.
I seem to spend all my time making it work instead of working on what it
says…
But I've downloaded a bunch of info and dug back into my files; so I think I'm
prepared. I certainly wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything.
Thanks for your advice.
Carlton
t