CompuServe Thread

#How much to charge?

14 messages in this thread
#118754From: Paul AdelsonAug 17, 1994 9:29 AM
Any suggestions on putting together a cost estimate for creating a fairly simple fly-through of a building? This would be at an initial proposal stage — roughed out building and equipment with a simplified site plan. (We're an architecture firm.) We've never done a walk-through before, and would be buying 3DS for this project. How much time does it take to get started, learn the software, etc? Do people recommend doing fly-throughs on a computer system or dumping the images out to tape, and if the latter, how much does that cost? Sorry for the stupid questions, but we have to start somewhere. Thanks.
#118873From: Brandon BartlettAug 17, 1994 6:38 PM
Hi John, No questions are ever stupid. We had to start out asking the same questions a little over a year ago. Now we are a full fledged animation firm specializing in Architectural visualization. As to the cost questions, it all depends upon whether this is the only one you wish to do or if you plan on making the 'walk-through's a standard part of your architectural services. If this is the only one you want to do, or if you only plan on doing it a couple times a year, your most cost effective solution would be to hire an independent contractor to create the animation ( you can always call us). If you plan on making animated 'walk-through's a standard part of your service package, plan on getting the following equipment and spending the amounts shown or more (this just shows some of the major stuff we had to get to do the same thing you are wanting to do): 3D-Studio $ 3,000.00 S-VHS vcr $ 3,000.00 – 6,000.00 NTSC video card $ 2,000.00 + VCR controller card $ 1,000.00 + Misc other cards/sftwr/etc. $ 2,000.00 + This doesn't include the time to come up to speed on the new software, install and fight with all the new hardware, or the other expenses that surprised us when we started. Regarding your question about how to show the animation, either on the computer or on video tape; Think of it from the client's perspective, if he spends extra to have a walk-through done, he's gonna want to show it to other people, and you probably don't want all his friends, relatives, and business associates pouring into your office to look at your computer screen, but he won't have to bother you if its output to a video tape he/she can take with them. It's a pretty big investment of time and money to get into creating animated walk-throughs and do it right, but if you plan to do it often enough it may be worth your while. If not, 'out-source' the animation part of your project to an indepent contractor. I hope this info is helpful. If you have any questions, please send me a message here, or call or write to the following. DesignTec 255 Celia St. Boaz, AL 35957 (205) 593-7789
#119486From: RACHID MOLINARYAug 21, 1994 3:23 AM
Do you have a brochure and/or video of your company's work?
#119625From: Brandon BartlettAug 22, 1994 10:36 AM
Yes sir, we do have some information and a copy of our last project that we could send you. If you could give me your address I'll send you something in the next couple days. If you could tell me a little about what you are looking for It will help me know exactly what to send you. Thanks Brandon Bartlett DesignTec
#119778From: RACHID MOLINARYAug 22, 1994 11:07 PM
My address is: P O Box 361986 San Juan, PR 00936-1986 I'm interested in architectural visualization: modeling, rendering, animation, ect… Rachid
#119856From: Brandon BartlettAug 23, 1994 12:40 PM
Thanks for the address and info, I'll put together some info, a sample paper rendering, and a VHS copy of our last architectural project. If you need anything else just let me know. Brandon DesignTec
#119285From: Zac RymlandAug 19, 1994 3:03 PM
John; How much to charge? That's a big question, it is like asking an arch. how much it cost to design a house but not giving any details. But I will try to shed some light on your situation. As far as learning 3D Studio goes, that all depends on who is trying to learn it and how much of a hacker they are. If your firm is already working in ACAD and especially in 3D in ACAD then you have a jump on the situation. Your models can be imported directly into 3DS, however some elements are not read correctly by 3DS. And therefor a modeling technique will be developed over time for clean importing into 3DS. Once you are productive in 3DS, animation costs very greatly between just creating small flicks to play back on the computer or creating broadcast quality animations on video. One thing to keep in mind in regards to creating flicks is that to get smooth play back, the flick must fit in RAM and it is very easy to create a 30 to 60 Mb flick. On the other hand to put high quality animation out to tape you need massive storage due to the fact that there are 30 frames per second and a single frame will be anywhere from .5 to 1 Mb. That adds up quickly. There are a few systems out there such as the PAR which allow for some serious compression while still maintaining good image quality, but that's a whole other story. Well I know I did not spit out any numbers for your clarification, but I hope this did shed some light on you situation. My company does Architectural animation as a major source of revenues, and I will be happy to give help you further in any way. Zac (AZ-TECH) Berkeley
#119993From: Paul AdelsonAug 24, 1994 9:27 AM
Hello Zac, Thanks for the reply. You mentioned that your company does a lot of architectural rendering / animations — is that for in-house projects only or do you also develop for other AEC firms? Could you send me e-mail with details if it is the latter? Any suggestions on books / instructional materials that would help us get up to speed faster? Two people have recommended "Inside 3D Studio". are there other books / video training / CBT (or courses in the Chicago area) people are aware of that focus on / work well for architectural rendering / amimation? Thanks.
#119400From: James M. MurphyAug 20, 1994 2:32 AM
Hi John! You didn't happen to mention where you were located. We are sponsering Wisconsin's 1st Annual Hands-On 3D Digital Artists Conference & Training Seminars Program. There are over 20 Vendors present and the Classes are being run by Steven Elliott. You could call me almost anytime at (414) 435-7345 or at (414) 437-3898. or E-Mail me your Fax number for 4 pages of class descriptions and Exhibits & Conference going's on. James M. Murphy
#119994From: Paul AdelsonAug 24, 1994 9:27 AM
Hello James, Actually, we're located in Chicago. What part of Wisconsin are you in? Also, do you have any suggestions re. books, training videos, CBT, or other stuff to get us up to speed in 3DS and outputting to Video? Thanks.
#120163From: James M. MurphyAug 25, 1994 12:11 AM
John, If your that close then you better think about coming to this 3 Day special event we've got going, Here is the Posting for the Conference and Exhibits Portion of our 3D Artists Conference and Seminars: The Conference and Exhibits: Mr. Rick West from Autodesk will be in attendance. Plan on hearing from him regarding Autodesks direction as well as recently announced New Products of interest to Videographers, Engineers & Architects alike. For those interested in doing Professional Broadcast work, Mr. Tom Yager from Matrox will be showing the newly released Professional Digital Animation Recorder, the Matrox MAX as well as the Illuminator Pro card and related technologies. We'll also be showing the Sanyo GVR-S950 Video Production Center. FARGO will demonstrate 600 dpi Photo-Realistic Dye-Sublimation color printing for under $1600. Mr. Ron Wilson will present WACOM's 12×12 Cordless, Batteryless Pressure Sensitive Pen tablet and will be introducting New Product. You'll see all the New Yost Group, Digimation, and Schreiber IPAS Routines. Turtle Beach Systems will be showing off their QUAD Four Track Digital Audio as well as other related audio Products. Of Course Steven Elliott will be speaking on several subjects and we are still adding Vendors to this list. Conference Cost is $50. per person which includes Steven Elliotts 1000+ page book & CD-ROM "Inside 3D Studio", Schreiber Instruments Visual Design CD-ROM (Pending), Free 1years subscriptions to New Media as well as subscription deals & Copies of latest issues of CADence, Cadalyst, Digital Video, Bill Allen's 3D Artist, Morph's Outpost on the Digital Frontier and, of course the first issue of Planet Studio with a Special Charter Offer. There's more: We're adding to the list daily and will also be giving away much more valuable information regarding Presentation Graphics and Digital Video as well as Products such as AutoVision, Syndesis 3D-ROM, Autodesks Texture Universe CD-ROMs….this list is growing too! See the other posting for Classes. If your not attending Classes and wish to attend all three days of the Conference and Exhibits for just $50. Registration and lodging information may be obtained through James M. Murphy JMC located at 1431 Garland Street, Green Bay, Wisconsin 54301 Phones: (414) 435-7345 or 437-3898 CompuServe id 71165,1321. Classes run from 9:00am to 4:00pm The Conference and Exhibit Hall are open from 8:00am to 6:00pm Where: This all takes place August 29th, 30th, and 31st. at the "Bordini Center" located at Fox Valley Technical College, 1825 North Bluemound Drive, Appleton, Wisconsin 54913-2277. The Bordini Center is an Authorized ATC and we will be presenting Certificates of Completion for the Courses offered. I've omitted several Vendors whom we have yet to firm things up with but I can tell you now you will have free access to CompuServe for all 3 of these days as well as 6 additional vendors who have indicated interest in showing product and providing materials and software for this "First Wisconsin" Hands-On 3D Digital Artist's Conference & Training Seminars. Thank you for this consideration. James M. Murphy James Murphy Consulting 1431 Garland Street Green Bay, Wisconsin 54301 (414) 435-7345 (414) 437-3898 Murph'
#120164From: James M. MurphyAug 25, 1994 12:11 AM
John, Also Please Consider this: Ok Here's the Official Posting of our 3D Studio Conference and Seminars. Coming up August 29th, 30th and 31st. The Seminars: Steven Elliott co-author of "Inside 3D Studio" who also taught at Autodesk University last year will be out instructor. We'll be offering a Menu approach, this way you may sign up for all three days or for just the days that you want: Monday Aug. 29th 9:00am-4:00pm (Break for Lunch) Day 1: Lofting and Modeling Tips and Techniques. This class focuses on modeling techniques primarily used in the Shaper/Lofter modules with some infromation provided on face and vertex editing in the 3D Editor. Issues to be covered include; the creation of efficient models through the use of Steps and Refine; complex lofting paths, deformation grids; editing and welding vertices; and detaching and attaching faces. Day 2: Mapping Techniques for Creating Realistic Materials. this class looks at advanced materials creation to avoid that "computer look" when rendering your scenes. A lot of time will be spent on exploring the use of map masks and combining multiple maps within a single material. Creating effects such as grime, rust, smudges, and composite materials through the use of multiple maps and masks will be presented. Day 3: Keyframing for Quality Motion. This Class studies the design of motion in the keyframer and how to plan for and simulate realistic effects. Traditional concepts such as anticipation, follow-through, and secondary motion will be explored. Examples of these condepts include vibration and collision effects, takes, double takes, the effects of weight and inertia, and basic character animation. Where: The "Bordini Center" Located at Fox Valley Technical College, 1825 North Bluemound Drive, Appleton, Wisconsin 54913-2277. During Classes each student will be provided with his own Professional Graphics Workstation. The Class rooms are separate from the Conference and Exhibits room that is also taking place. In addition to your own comfortable Workstation the instructor has the use of a wall sized rear projection screen for computer graphics display as well as VCR Audio and Video and slide usage. You will be working with the Latest releas of 3D Studio Release 3. Cost: Classes are priced at $200 per day per student. This is an extremely good rate considering the level of instruction being provided. We are extremely lucky to have Mr. Elliott here to conduct these classes. There will be a seperate Posting regarding the Conference and Exhibits. Here's the Breakdown. Classes Registered Conference Bundle Total 0 Classes = $ 0 $ 50 $ 50 1 Class = $200 $ 35 $235 2 Classes = $400 $ 20 $420 3 Classes = $600 $ 0 $600 Classes Run from 9:00am to 4:00pm The Conference and Exhibit Hall are open from 8:00am to 6:00pm This will allow those taking all 3 classes time to catch the morning and evening speakers as well as time for the exhibit areas. The lunch hour will be staggered to allow for additional time also. Call for the full Conference and Exhibit Agenda. Class Registration Form: First Name:_________________Last Name:________________________ Job Title: __________________________ Telephone: _____________________ Organization: ________________________________________________________ Address: _____________________________________________________________ Address: (continued) _________________________________________________ Fax: ____________________________ E-Mail: ____________________________ I wish to register for Classes: (Please Circle) Day 1: Yes No Day 2: Yes No Day 3: Yes No ( $200ea ) I would also like the Conference Bundle: Yes No (See above) Enclosed Payment: ____________Checks and money orders (US$) should be made payable to James Murphy Consulting. Refund requests must be made in writing and received by Aug. 12th. There is a refund processing fee of US$50 to cover materials purchases per registration. Registration and lodging information may be obtained through: James M. Murphy JMC (414) 435-7345, 437-3898 or on CompuServe id# 71165,1321. See our Conference Posting also in this forum: Thank You. James M. Murphy
#120211From: Paul AdelsonAug 25, 1994 9:04 AM
James — Thanks for the posting. It's a little close to the date for us to schedule, but I'll make sure word gets around to all of the people here who most need to get training.
#120375From: James M. MurphyAug 26, 1994 1:04 AM
Paul! Hey..we got 3DS'rs flying in from Atlanta, Texas, etc! We just booked a sound system that imporves on what the Center had about 1000% and Upgraded to a Higher Resolution Video in _Both_ Rooms. There's a million little other details including a lot of door prizes. And that's just for starters! Come On Paul…fill the Van up, button er' down and Yell "ROAD TRIP!!" <BG> Murph'