#4th Dimension!!
14 messages in this thread
If you havn't time to take five, skip this message
completely!!!!
Thoughts about 4-dimension
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I was out walking with my dog this morning, when I started
to think about 3:e and 4:th dimension. 3 dimensions is easy
to see befour you, but what should be the 4:th. Time is
usually explained as the 4:th dimension. Brain dammished by
to mush 3D Studio use I thought -"Aha, Keyframer!!". But
this doesn't feel like a dimension to me, just as a time
axis. A fourth axis that we with a set speed move along and
cannot alter or go back.
When I have seen professors and alike trying to explain the
4:th dimension, they have always gone back and tried to
explain how hard it must be for a 2D man to understand the
3:d dimension. If one puts our 2D man at a steady speed
moving him along the 3:d axis, it would be the same as a 3:d
man moving along the time axis. If the 2:d man leaves a
trail behind him on every small step on the way, he would
never know of that himself. Much like a shape on the path
not knowing that it will build a 3D model, like the 3D
Lofter. This would mean that a 2D object will become a
static non moving object in 3D.
If we assign the same theory on ourself, then we would look
like somekind of a static object to those who fully live
in 4D, if they exist. If a 4D person/object would move at
exactly the same speed along the timeaxis as we do, they
would be visible for us. But when they alter there course,
and start moving slower or faster in time, they would
dissapear to us as if they never had been there. They should
also be able to see where we have been and where we are
going to and what is going to happen. As well as we can see
what will happen with the 2D-Shape along the path.
This was just some crasy thoughts that went through my head
this morning, and I thought I would share it with you. I
don't know why but I have a fealing that most of you will
understand my thoughts, although you may not come to the
same conclusions.
Ok back to work again!!!
– Martin Enthed [Enthed Animation]
Martin,
That was very entertaining, and on a certain philosophical level its also
relevant.
Thanks for sharing it. 🙂
John
If your brain can adapt to interpreting 2D representations of 3D
objects, as in wireframe editor views, then you might want to check
out various public domain programs that let you manipulate 2D
projections of 4D objects – hypercubes, etc.
>>The 4th Dimension, (the idea, not the group)…
Good thoughts!
Did you ever read the first few chapters of the book of Ezekiel in
the Bible? I like to think it describes a visit from the 4th
dimension. (…every one had four faces, four wings, went all four
directions at the same time without turning… "ran and returned as
the appearance of a flash of lightning"…)
I'd be very interested in what you think of this!
JKJ
Interesting thought, but it was a "vision" given to Ezekiel by Jehovah
God, who exists in the spirit realm (which, if that's the 4th
dimension, would't that be cool?). The whole point of the vision was
to give Ezekiel a symbolic glimpse into what he could not see as a
human or understand if explained in 'spiritual' terms, the inner
workings of God's heavenly organization. The fact that the winged
creatures had four faces was symbolically representing God's four
perfect qualities, or attributes: Love, Wisdom, Justice, and Power.
If y'all want me to go on, I can……
Brandon
P.S. What I would like to see is someone model and animate how,
according to quantum physics, an object of mass 'warps' 3-dimensional
(and possibly 4-d) space. I'm getting rather tired of the old
stand-by 'ball on a sheet of rubber' visualization experiment.
>>God in "the 4th dimension, wouldn't that be cool?"…
Yes! That was my point. I'm quite aware of the spiritual symbolism in
Ezekeil. I would not presume to explain the inexplicable, but when I attempt
to imagine the 4th dimension from our 3D viewpoint, and then think of how God
describes Himself in the Bible (all places at once, without beginning, without
end, etc.), I can't help thinking about the physical parallels to the Ezekiel
description.
Imagine a 3D object intersecting 2D space and entering into the presence of a
2D 'person' in Flatland. The 3D object might be thought of as comming from
above and passing down thru the plane. From the 2Der's perspective, the first
thing he'd see might be a point which appeared out of nowhere. This 'vision'
might expand rapidly, moving outward in all directions as more of the 3D object
intersected with the plane.
Who knows what forces would be released as 2D matter were displaced by the 3D
object, and how the interaction between 2D 'electrons' and 3D electronic forces
would appear from the 2D perspective. (whirlwind, flash of lightning?) The
object could easily appear to violate all the 'laws' of 2D physics, such as
moving faster than the speed of light (as in the classic scissors thought
experiment), and might appear and disappear instantaneously in different places
as different parts intersected the plane. Now step up one dimension and try to
imagine how a 4D 'object' might appear to us as it 'intersected' 3D space. !
Hey, nice idea about updating the 'ball on a sheet of rubber' concept. Send me
the animation when you get it done! <g>
JKJ
Enough of this baby stuff…. it's the 5th dimension and from the Age of
Aquarius
Now you've done it here come all those memories…
>> Now step up one dimension and try to imagine how a 4D 'object' might appear
to us as it 'intersected' 3D space. !<<
Very good analogy and logical "next step".
Hi John,
I just re-read my message to you about Ezekiel, and I realize it sounded pretty
"preachy". I apologize for that, I hope I didn't offend you.
I have been thinking { uh-oh 🙂 } about your comments re: the 'physical
parallels' between the possible interaction between 3d and 4d beings and
Ezekiels description, and it occured to me that the spirit realm couldn't be
the '4th dimension'.
'Dimensions' existing within the 'Space-Time' continuum are an integral part of
the fabric of the physical universe. The spirit realm obviously existed before
God chose to create the physical universe, because that is where he has always
existed. Therefore it is completely seperate from the physical universe we
exist in and hence, can't be the 4th dimension.
That's why spirit creatures described in the scriptures seem to defy the
physical 'laws of nature' that we know (traveling faster than the speed of
light, etc.) because their existence has nothing to do with the physical
universe and therefore they are not bound, or even affected by, the laws of
physics. Now, how they interact with our universe when they decide to is
another question entirely.
Your comments about 2D entities (the sensient kind, not the Autocad flavor)
observing a 3D creature interacting with their 'space' are very thought
provoking. My only question is, wouldn't a 2D being's vision (or whatever
means of detection they might utilize) be line of sight only, meaning that
anything they saw in their 'universe' would appear as a simple line? We, being
3D people ( I wonder if there are buy-out libraries of 4d people for use with
4D-Studio, or 11D- for that matter?), would be the only ones to see the shapes
as the object passed through their world, They would only be able to see the
side of the shape, or a line. Just a thought.
Brandon
P.S. Is it just me, or have we strayed immensely from where the thread began?
Oh-well…
>> wouldn't a 2D being's vision (or whatever means of detection they might
utilize) be line of sight only, meaning that anything they saw in their
'universe' would appear as a simple line? <<
Not necessarily. If we, as 3D entities, had only one eye, then we would only
be able to see a 2D representation of images. However, with two eyes, our
brain assembles two 2D images into a 3D concept.
Inductive reasoning would indicate that a 2D entitiy, with two eyes, could take
two 1D images and formulate 2D concept.
To further the analogy, we also have other senses besides sight that allow us
to perceive the dimentionality of our universe. Likewise, a 2D entity might
have additional senses to provide extra information.
As for the 4th Dimention, I am happy with the 'time' explanation. We need at
least two 3D stills to formulate a motion concept. This is consistant with the
previous analogies above. If time is taken as the 4th dimension, we are, by
nature, actually 4D beings since our existance is meaningless without the
passage of time.
I think that the dimension of time is often not included since it does not
exist in a tactile fashion. So, if time is held as common in any dimension,
then, we are 3D by definition. In which case, a 4D object intersecting our 3D
reality would indeed be a sight to behold! 🙂
— James — MAP —
>>Did you ever read the first few chapters of the book of Ezekiel in the
Bible?<<
I can't say I have. I will have to look into that?
I'm glad to have started some thoughts! Call the "filisofical" or just
plain "stupid" :-)!! I know that my theory have many gaps. You could
say that a stone is somekinde of a 2D object that is moved along its
path making a 3D-object. But then if you take it up and move it, it
has moved in the 4:th dimension too!? This should mean that there is
maybe so that we also are influensed by a 5:th dimension that we
havn't the slitest idea off!
You see if one start to let the mind go in these tracks one could go
on for ever!!!!
>>more dimensions…
Thanks for starting this little mental stretch break! I love to stop and
ponder on the imponderable at times.
Now, I wonder if the inhabitants of this 4th dimension use a software program
called 4D-Studio, written by the Yost Cluster. They must make graphics in a
plain old 3D medium that make their audiences say, "Wow, doesn't that really
look 4D!?"
JKJ
I _did_ hear about an 11D Studio somewhere, which constucted everything out of
super strings. I think it's from France.
– G
France? Isn't that where the Coneheads were from?