#3D programs on Mac
60 messages in this thread
Hey, we are looking for a program that will let us use our PowerMac as a
modeling machine for 3DS. Anyone out there knows about a good modeling package
for the infamous Macintosh that will let us push the envelope a step further?
Of course, 3DS file format support is a must.
(mmmmh, 3DS for the PowerPC will be OK, but where can I find it <bg>)
ana /krazy images
Ana
Have you checked out FormZ? I haven't used it myself or tried to use it in
conjunction with 3DS but our Interior Design Program uses it and I like the
interface and its modeling capability. Its been upgraded for the PowerPC too.
I'm thinking of trying to put it on my incoming PowerPC's. If you need an
address let me know. I've got it at my office across town.
Carlton
Nope, I didn't saw it. I have seen Raydream Designer reports everywhere and
Infini-D on the PowerMac Demo CD (comes with the full program and it is pretty
good, but nothing about 3DS -yet-). I was only asking to check if some 3DSers
working with both PCs and Macs have any fisrt hand experience with any 3D
modeler. Thanks for your reply! 🙂 I will add the name to my list of to-check
programs (question is: where I am going to take the time to call all the
companies I have on the list?)
I am going to try Mac forums and see. If I find something I will come back here
with comments.
ana /krazy images
Ana-
Have you used Electric Image for rendering any Images? I'm interested in
Electric Image to use as a renderer for a Mac Lab.
I see Rachael has the FormZ address.
Carlton
Electric Image seems like a pretty cool renderer. The demo I have is pretty
impressive so are the images and animations I have seen. No direct experience
with it yet 🙁
ana /krazy images
>> The demo I have is pretty impressive so are the images and animations I
>> have seen.
From their literature and demo tape, it seems that EI sort of parallels 3DS.
They have plug in particle systems and image effects much like the existing
IPAS stuff. What really surprised me was how much more it cost than 3DS. It
starts at over double the price, and then you tack on another $2K or so just to
get network rendering!
The desktop video and 3D market is still in its infancy, so it will be
interesting to see what grows out of it in the next year or so. I wonder what
MS/SoftI will do, and I'm sure we'll see continued growth from TrueSpace,
Lightwave, Strata and others, too!
– Dave
No modeler = no parallel. (or am I missing something…)
– G
>> No modeler = no parallel. (or am I missing something…)
Sounds like *I* missed something!!! Is it common among -other- rendering
packages not to include modelers? I guess we 3DSers (or at least myself) start
to make some incorrect assumptions after getting used to the completeness of
3DS.
– Dave
Gary,
Do you have any suggestion/advice about a Mac modeler compatible with 3DS?
Thanks!
ana /krazy images
My favorite modeler is the Symbolics modeler, and I think they had a Mac
version at some point, but it required a special Nubus card. They've (III) now
have an SGI version that screams, but I think they stopped developing for the
Mac a few years ago.
– G
Well, could you point me to something that actually runs in a Mac and you
consider it good enough to be used as an ocassional modeler for 3DS when the
Mac is free of print work? Thaaaaaaaanks, Masterrrr! (Tom Waits voice here 😉
ana /krazy images
Gee, Ana… the Mac isn't known for its modeling apps. RISC workstations are
pretty much the modeling kings. The Mac is much more famous for 2D apps, like
paint and publishing programs. <g> I like various cool features on a lot of
the Mac modelers that I've seen, but none of them have ever "felt" right to me.
– G
Gary, does the compay Triple iii make the Symbolics modeler or use the
Symbolics modeler? I keep hearing reference to the famed Symbolics modeler but
am not sure what it is. I watched an animator at Colossal Pictures demo the
Triple iii modeler for me and was duly impressed.
Thanks,
Carlton
Yup. TripleI now sells S-Model.
– G
David,
<<it seems that EI sort of parallels 3DS. They have plug in particle systems
and image effects much like the existing IPAS stuff>>
That is what I thought when I saw the demo at Siggraph. Their plug-in stuff
looked alot like the _original_ IPAS stuff, ie very numeric in its UI. I think
they have some catching up to do compared to say the new YG stuff.
The other thing that struck me about EI was how torturously slow the screen
updated wireframes. I kept squirming in my chair thinking about waiting on
that program. Eeek…
Also like many MAC apps there is a tremendous proliferation of windows all over
the screen. The guy doing the demo spent quite a bit of time resizing/moving
windows to access other windows…
On the other hand, I did see some stuff that I thought would be a nice addition
to 3ds. For example, when they created object deformations, it created all the
'morph keys' and hid the morph target objects without any user intervention.
Mark
I am pretty sure that the Yost Group is going to mantain the -long- distance
between 3DS and its competitors in release 4 (and following versions). For
features for sure. What I am not sure about is how the 3DS graphic user
interface is going to change (and please, don't start any war on this, ok?).
Every review or reference I see about 3DS only can point one bad thing: its
interface. A fully customizable, more intuitive and interactive one could be a
great time saver for both experienced and new users. Well, we all have submited
many wishlist items regarding this subject, so we all know what could be good
and what is not in the 3DS interface.
ana /krazy images
Awwww, Ana… It's so nice to know that you care!
(I'm blushing…)
– G
Blush? Blush? Why did I make you blush?
ana /krazy images
Because you care so MUCH! It's so cute!
– G
Well, you can say that I have not developed that killer instinct about your
company… YET. When you start acting like Microsoft, then I won't longer care
about what or why the Yost Group do things. But until then, you have my
confidence and, you can say, loyalty. Rare these days. It can change, although
🙂
ana /krazy images
EI is "just"a renderer, a really powerful one, but has no modeling
capabilities…
>> "just"a renderer
I have grown so accustomed to using top quality, full-featured software that I
didn't think anything was "a la carte" these days. I guess I should pay closer
attention when I browse the mags and glossy ad slicks!
Krazy,
PMBI, Are you in my neighborhood? 3D User's meeting in around Ft. Lauderdale.
Rick Lapidus
hello Ana… i thought your image with you and creation, very beautiful from a
few months ago.
form+Z is wonderful modeller-great for tension structures;
It has our old friends: the NURBS.
autodessys 2011 Riverside Drive, Columbus Ohio 43221
614-488-9777 fax:488-08482
Produced by the author, I beieve, a prof at Ohio State.
It seems most users export from there to Strata Pro or Electric Image.
I am 99.9% sure form z is out in native for the Power Mac.
But (sigh) there's no place like home and 3DS still feels like home. Good
Luck.rachel
Rachel
Have you ever used or seen anyone use Electric Image? I'm interested in
finding out more about it. And I'm wondering what 3DS users (my digital point
of reference ) think about it?
Carlton
I tried to see as many EI images and demos as possible at the A/E/C Systems in
June; since local MACophile friends showed me Myst and the "Making of Myst"
about 8 mos ago, I have seen more and more MAC work and of course this summer
most everything came out native and the Power Macs are not that expensive.
We sell these little people for people(tm)people meshes to more and more Form
z'ers and they are the ones who show me EI and Strata renderings. I have to
become kind of an expert at file translation, so my own rendering/creative
experience other than meshes with _any_ program is a bit limited.
Many use EI because it has a larger polygon rendering capability, than 3DS, but
I still like 3DS better than anything on earth.
EI is I think the only program that is uncrackable and it costs approximately
$7,500. But as Gary has pointed out at an earlier time- that is only for a
rendering engine…although I think they are expanding the program's features.
Its 3DS read in capability is the best on the market anywhere,(trueSpace is
coming along though pretty well). It will read 3DS directly…without .dxf.
This saves alot of time and data, but there are some tricks to setting up the
3DS file for a perfect read-in, esp for materials.
I have seen the work of "View By View" who uses Electric Image, and they
produce animations, architectural and general docu.s
for the White House, Olympic Games bidders, and that Buena Civc Project
in San Francisco.
archiTREK in Santa Barbara does some wonderful architectural fly throughs/video
and still image. Mindy Rosenblatt uses various modelling/CAD3d (ArchiCAD and
form Z mostly) all Mac based, EI for rendering and animation, video out, and
other photo/videp
programs and Kodak CD processes.
They all (MAC renderers) seem to chat on that "America Online"
Mac forums. Maybe you have access to there.
Both the firms above are owned and directed by Architects, but I think their
rendering and animation have branched out as their talents are
seen and appreciated by the world.
The price for 3DS is much less, and now with the R4 features, it will
only have more strength and flexibility.
If you use a PC, it is a big leap over to the MAC world it seems. Also the
little 3D programs on the PC feed right into 3DS.
Thanks for the MAC rundown Rachel.
3DS is my pc program of choice, but I want to make my MAC relatives happy too!
I've taken on a new tack when faced with the endless MAC vs PC debates…I just
try and have everybody see some of the stuff 3DS is capable of…if they are
knowledgeable about animation 3DS does all the rest.
But I have seen some terrific EI stills, mostly in the Form Z magazine, and in
Computer Graphics. I'll look into rendering Form Z meshes in 3DS as well. (Of
course I have no idea how the lab will pay for any of this:*)
carlton
ahhh isee now…sorry for not being current with who's who up
here or that you are a 3DS asofter and all.
well i am jealous if you get all those…and will be interested in
hearing when you start networking them all together.
I think Ana has had some pretty good insight into image quality
and the role of the artist v. the program up here over the last year.
nice to meet you Carlton…let us know when you splurge.
Well I've been lurking for so long I feel like a regular. (g)
BTW, I was at AutoDesk University in S.F. last Fall and am pretty sure that our
paths crossed in some great group introduction during the week. Maybe it was
the 3DS Users group meeting.
I like those mesh people!
Nice to meet you online.
Carlton
Please let us know about your experiences with formZ and 3DS. We are
currently using Acad and 3DS and now have bought 10 powerpc's and formZ.
The students are about to experience a significant change in the way they
work between platforms, and any suggestions for better transfers between
each would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Doug
Georgia Tech Lab operator
Tolek-
I think I'm looking for the same kind of information you are. I have been
running ACAD in windows and 3DS. Now I find most of my visualization needs met
by 3DS. This summer I began to set up a second computer lab for a group of
departments with different visualization needs: sculpture, crafts, and painting
and printmaking. I had to fight like crazy to keep any INTEL machines.
Everybody wanted MACS, power MACS, so we compromised. Now I'm running both.
The Interior Design department is all MAC and they are running Form Z. It
looks like a great interface and a terrrific modeler.
I also like its set up for people who want to design buildings and furniture.
I'm thinking about trying to run it on my power macs. But I haven't spent much
time with it.
3DS more than fills all my project needs. If it wasn't for my need of a MAC
based modeler and renderer I'd be happy to stick with 3DS.
I'd be interested in any tools, utilities, tricks, etc you guys find out. I'll
pass onto you any I hear about.
Carlton
Sounds very similar Carlton. I have just heard that the rendering package for
the Mac, Electric Image, will read 3ds files in its next version. This may be
just the "missing link" we need to be able to coexist without staying
completely in just one or the other platform (seeing as we are forced to). I'll
be happy to pass on anything I have heard.
Doug Glasgow
Georgia Tech Lab Operator
Did they use EI for Myst? I thought they use Strata… uhm 🙂 Well, anyway, the
guys at Cyan just bought an SGI system when they get top dollars for their
best-seller. I read a fairly interesting interview in a recent issue of Wired.
That was way BEFORE the launch of the PowerMacs, it think <g>
ana /krazy images
i didn't mean they used Electric Image for Myst…I just discovered
them all around the same time…and then I heard the MAC read out loud.
(g)
I remeber reading the list of programs for Myst…it was long, but I
don't recall Elec. Image either.
Well, Myst is great in all senses, no matter what hardware/software they
have/had. To the hell with techie talk! <bg>
ana /krazy images
I heard that Myst was _extremely_ hard to install on IBM's. Something about the
Quicktime drivers, etc. This was from one of the most technically competent
people I know, and he gave up after several installation attempts and many
calls. There were also a lot of threads on the Gamers forum from people who
couldn't get it going. Are you running it on your pc, or on a Mac?
– Jack
(PS – I'm interested in adventure games, but not when the installation is part
of the puzzle. <g>)
FWIW, I had no problems whatsoever installing Myst. When I run Windows
game stuff, I use the standard MS superVGA drivers (640 x 480, 256 colors),
this way I think I'm avoiding some of the usual video driver problems that some
people might have with certain games.
David
That's good to hear. Maybe I'll spring for it sometime.
– J
I have it running well on the XLs. I bought it way before I got the PowerMac.
Yes, I saw the threads on the gaming forums, but most of them respond to the
classic boy or girl that don't even bother about reading manuals and read.me
files 😉 Seriously, I have read too that Myst has some -fixable- problems with
some sound cards configurations. What was wrong with their installation? Tell
me your configuration and I will try to track down any possible problem.
BTW, most of the bug reports I saw in those forums about other games are most
of the time a product of the user fantasy (read: user incompetence to have a
clean, stable system). I just hate when someone jump in with the usual "your
game is a bunch of bugs I will never buy another of your games you have a poor
service support I will kill you I hate you now my life is worthless" kind of
mail. Imagine some of the (unusual) stupid nearthentals that come time to time
to this forum with hate mail against 3DS and blame you, Gary, the rest of the
Yost Group, Adesk, the whole forum and even Elvis because they't can run 3DS
right on his/her computer. Now imagine hundreds of them sending you e-mails.
Sounds cool, uhm? 🙂 Well, I am sure that you have read a lot of that kind of
mail.
I am also into adventure games, specially LucasArts ones. Maybe you would like
to comment on this subject either here or by e-mail.
Cheers!
ana /krazy images
Funny that you mention that… I get 100-200 emails/month from kids who want to
run 3DS on their Nintendo and Sega machines. Really!
– G
(not)
I know it is illegal but I just reverse engineered 3DSr3 in my old Apple IIe,
buy a few 10MB SNES and Genesis clear cartridges and burned a version with full
support for that new 60fps SuperMario/Sonic Sprites IPAS that Gus is writing
for us. We announced it in a few pirate BBSes time ago but we are having delays
because we don't know how to plug the SentinelPro on the SNES version (just to
make kids suffer with it) That's the reason of all that mail for you.
Hope you don't mind.
ana /krazy images
The guy who first told me about it couldn't get it installed, and he knows a
hell of a lot more about hardware and software than your usual game user.
>>I am also into adventure games….comment…<<
Basically, I picked up a few, such as Return to Zork, Lands of Lore, and
Underworld. Got 3/4 of the way through Lands of Lore and my hard disk crashed,
so I lost all my saves. Didn't have the heart to go through it again to get
back to where I was. Recently, I just haven't had the time to do other than
boot the others and move around a little bit. There was a time when I had this
walk-in closet and hours of time on my hands to get lost (in the original Zork
— still the best), but them days is over. Now, I just like to glance at a new
game, see what the designers have done, and then move on.
– J
>>in the original Zork — still the best
Yep…had the best graphics I'd ever imagined having seen in a game. A friend
and I sat down one summer and plowed through 1,2, & 3; ah, to have that amount
of free time again.
John Stetzer
JWS
I was not implying that the guy was computer illiterate. My reply was just an
excuse to throw out some thoughts about that other type of game player out
there 🙂
Try Myst. It is not like the 7th Guest (not full animation) but you will love
the atmosphere. I think you should try the Ultima Underworld I/II CD too. That
will not get you any noticiable HD space. I think that the best, by far, in the
adventure games arena (they are not RPGs lie Underworld), are the LucasArts
games, both from the entertaiment and technical point of view. As a plus, they
use 3DS (you know already know that, though 🙂 Their production quality is
EXTREMELY good. All their games are instant classics. Their latest talkies CDs
are really superb. Look for their adventures if you want to know who is the
creme de la creme in the game bizz.
1.Day of the Tentacle (CD Edition-Full talkie CDROM) -Tex Avery animation and
wild humor-
2.Monkey Island 2 (CD Edition -not talkie) -best pirate humor you will ever
see-
3.Sam&Max (CD Talkie) -based on Steve Purcell Sam & Max, wildest humor, jazz
soundtrack, Comedy Central blood everywhere, the best-
4.Monkey Island 1 -first part, get the 256 color version, is not so advanced as
MI2, but is a must-
5.Both Indiana Jones adventures. More serious, but some Indy-humor arround.
In addition to this, there are more comming:
1.Full Trottle -seems to have the most advanced games ever, continues with
DOTT/S&M tradition but with a lot of 3D involved as well.
2.The Dig- serious adventure based on Steven Spielberg work, he puts the story
and _ILM_ put the special effects-
3.Dark Forces -first person Underworld/DOOM kind of adventure, plot: you a
Rebel Spy trying to get the secret plans of the Death Star (more Star Wars
merchandise to raise the expectation -and the budget :)- for the second SW
trilogy.
There you are, with this you will get a peek to see the technology and then get
hooked for a few weekends <g>
ana /krazy images
>> (in the original Zork — still the best)
I'm afraid the days of imaginative text adventures are long gone. If it comes
to reading a book or watching the movie, I'll always chose to read the book.
For the same reason, I always liked the old text adventures. I spent many,
many hours of my life in Colossal Cave, with my little bird, saying "plugh" and
"xyzzy".
OTOH, I do enjoy endulging in good films, and likewise, well done graphic
adventures are fun and visually pleasing.
– Dave
FWIW, we did not have any problems installing Myst, but our performance was
improved after upgrading video and sound drivers. It seemed that there were a
few video cards and/or Cdroms that were giving the majority of people problems,
and there was an upgrade to the Cdrom that helped a few of those.
Doug – Georgia Tech
Well, it did not like my CDROM, CPU, Video, Sound, just about everything else.
It dies right in the install program. This is pretty weird as the "advantage"
of having this thing under Windowze is to be free of this hardware hassles. I
have far fewer problems with DOS based games than I do with these Windowze
implementations. Seventh Guest went really smooth. DOOM will play regardless
what I try to do to it.
.
DOOM will play regardless what I try to do to it.
.
Try deltree c:\doom and tell me how it goes <g>
Seriously. I installed, run and finished MYST without a glitch in a DEC like
yours 🙂 Maybe you should try the Compaq <bg>
ana /krazy images
I just got the lastest Myst and it's actually working! It now comes with a long
instruction sheet on how to update your Soundblaster 16 drivers (which is what
I have). Evidently, the first versions of Myst went out and, among other
things, wouldn't work with the SB16. (By the way, the instructions were not
what I would call an "automatic" install for the novice computer user.)
– J
Sorry it did not work well for you. I had a frustrating time with the sound
quality of the disk, it was very bad. Broderbund did not exactly have a very
good port, but they sent me 3 free disks trying to correct the problem.
Doug
Georgia Tech
Thanks for the comments, Rachel 🙂 And thanks for the pointer on form+Z!
However, from what I see, it is pretty expensive for what it will be used for:
an ocassional modeler for 3DS.
Cheers!
ana /krazy images
Also i forgot about this one I played with, by Xaos I think;
It was in Beta, but each time I went to play with it, it was a different Beta
and had a very different _interface_.
It was presented at some digital world convention in LA.
Must be very creative programmers. It has these 3D icons, which serve as a
menu, (a bit like but even more "graphic" than TruSpace)
and you can render little parts that have changed.
It creates a landscape and you edit very dynamically. Sorry this
isn't much to go on, but if you call Xaos, I imagine they will
know the program's name. bye.
That one by XAOS was actually the "Bryce" 3D landscape program and the
programmer seems to have links to Kai, which I mix up with Xaos, sometimes, so
sorry for confusion.
Well that is a very fun modeller, program on the MAC.
Yes, Bryce, it was going to be called something else, but they keep the "beta"
name. But that's just a landscape generator like VistaPro, right? (I will check
it to see how it works anyway). What it will be more interesting, also
published by HSC (price over the thousand, I think) will Live Picture and its
FITS propietary imaging architecture. Sure you know about it. Question is how
this AWESOME program is going to change the face of computer imaging in the
next months. Maybe we are in front of the next Photoshop. For sure, the program
could eat Shop, Styler and any other image editing program alive… provided it
has the announced features (and according to Publish, it will be a killer app)
IMHO, it will be the Killer App for a new generation of imaging programs.
Check September and October issues of Publish!
ana /krazy images
>>also published by HSC (price over the thousand, I think) will Live Picture
and its FITS propietary imaging architecture.
I believe the announced list price for Live Picture is $3500. Certainly
not meant for the casual user.
David
Watch also for xRes, from fauve software (yes, the guys of Matisse). Seems that
they have put Shop, Styler, Painter X2 and Live Picture in one package for just
$795. That sounds more like it <g> Still have to play with it personally,
though.
ana /krazy images
I haven't heard of Xres. Does it incorparate FITS (live picture)
technology, or something like it? And is this a Mac or PC thing… or both?
David
If it comes from Fauve, sure there is a 32bits version on the works, maybe for
OS/2, who knows 😉 The PowerMac version will be there for sure (first time they
get into the Mac market, I think). And yes, it incorporates a FITS-like
technology. Question is how you can compare both ofthem. From what I have seen,
xRes comes fully loaded, including traditional media simulation. Live Picture
falls into the "dark room" category. I can't wait to see them in the real
world.
ana /krazy images
No I don't know about any of this or Live Picture…and I will
look for this magazine you mention, thank you.
bye Ana.
rachel.
29-Aug-94 23:37:42
_This is a repost of a previous message with one additional point added_.
Shadow & Light production in San Francisco, CA is looking for 3D animators for
amazing Bio-Medical Cd-ROM/Game project. _Animators must live in the Bay Area
due to fast schedule which requires weekly meeting_.
Productions will run from Sept. 12- Jan. 10 (2 weeks off for X-Mas) Salary
negotiable.
Please call Stuart Gold at 415/546-6133 or E-mail me and I will pass the info
along.
Serious inquiries only please.
Zac (AZ-TECH)
Berkeley