CompuServe Thread

#Flyer future consensus

8 messages in this thread
#118656From: Wayne ColeAug 11, 1995 4:00 AM
At NAB dig-S was said to be shipping 12/95. BTW, there was an interesting essay regarding these formats in this months AVvideo magazien by Cecil Smith. I disagree with a lot of what he projects because I think he doesn't really understand software nerds and what motivates them and companies made up of software nerds. Of course, it depends on JVC and Panasonic being a little more on top of that than is Mr. Smith (who, btw, is the author of "Mastering Television Technology – A Cure for the Common Video" which is a must have book for all DTV producers). I think Panasonic's DVCPro will utlimately fail because it is really just another attempt to do a Sony – create a new format that becomes a defacto standard and locks everyone into a single maufacturer or licensed minions (a la Betacam). Witness D-II and M-II. Part of the bad idea is that DVCPro is incpompatible with DVC for the consumer, so the S-VHS/VHS type relation is unavailble. JVC's approach is to provide a bridge (via KY-19/KY-27 and equipment that plays/records both formats) from analog to digital formats. So, while waiting for you customer base to step up to digital, yhou can do all your work in (and enjoy all the benefits of) digital up until the creation of the final master, fo example. However, for JVC to really make that happen, they MUST get software developers on board to integrate direct use of the digital S-vhs in NLE systems like RazorPro/Targa/Perception etc. IOTW, they have to treat digital S-VHS as a public data format for third parties to perform document processing on. So far, IMix is the only company in the video world that I'v seen indications conciously recognizes digital video as just another document/data type. Panasonic is apparently keepin their system closed. If you want it you mus use their 6 mm tape, their editing computer,software and drives. The other difference is that they are at a 5:1 compression as opposed to digital S whic is 3 to 3.5:1. DVCPro is also 4:1:1 as opposed to digital S which is 4:2:2, so it will probably have lower color fidelity and be harder to expand to meet the demand of HDTV. S0oI think DVCPro is going to be the digital equivalent of M-II: looks nice, but compatibility with the market place will be a problem. Digital S-VHS, OTOH, has a distinct migratory path from current S-VHS/VHS to digital, to HDTV. So if JVC courts the rights-holders of quicktime, AVI, FLC and NLE producers, I think they could have the defacto pro-industrial format of the next 20 years. Again, just my guess based on a minimum of investigation of the two formats. wmc – via Autopilot!
#118796From: Brian JonesAug 11, 1995 11:31 PM
Thanks for your insights. It runs contrary to my in the dark assumptions….which are.. It seems that Sony is also going to use the DVC/pro and come out with equipment very soon. I just assumed that since Sony was going with this format, that it would be the Betacam of the new "low end" digital formats and digital S would be the MII. As I said, this was all based on gross assumption and no real investigating. As with what happened to Betamax, the "better" format doesn't always win. I totally agree with you about treating digital video as a "document type". However, it it seems that people in the software/data processing industry (which is where digital video takes us) haven't even learned that lesson. We have DOS, Windows and Unix to answer that part of the discussion. Anyway, If my flyer ever works, I just need something better to feed into it! The KY27 is definitely the camera I would buy for the money I have to spend right now. I like it (and even the X2) better than the supercam, which is the other contender. For now, I patiently wait to go thousands more in debt… Brian
#118811From: Wayne ColeAug 12, 1995 3:15 AM
Brian, I hadn't heard about the Sony DVCPro connection. Interesting. (I'll have to pump my buddy who works for Sony for some info). The SW people are on top of the video as a document idea. For example there are two efforts underway to standardize high res anim/gfx and full motion video. One camp is the Micorsoft, SGI, SoftImage, Alias, Wavefront group, the other is IBM, and some other I can't recall at the moment. The catch is that the video companies (Sony, JVC, Panasonic Hitachi Ikagami) don't seem to figure prominently in either camp. The first one to pick the right camp and do the bridging so that one can stay digital from aquisition to master, taking advantage of lossless digital compression will be the winner. Hopefully, whoever that is will keep the price around pro-industrial levels instead of network broadcast levels… >>For now, I patiently wait to go thousands more in debt… If you get tired of waiting, I'll spend it for ya :^} wmc – via Autopilot!
#118887From: Brian JonesAug 12, 1995 8:35 PM
I read that right after NAB in an article about the Panasonic show-n-tell of DVC. It said that Sony and someone else were licensing the format. Anyone else out there know anything ? I haven't been to the BP forum lately to see if it is being discussed over there. I'll get back to you if I find the article reference… Maybe there will be a market for DVC and Digital-S to Mpeg/vtasc/wavelet software.
#118895From: Wayne ColeAug 13, 1995 12:41 AM
I think you can count VTASC out of the running. They didn't generate much notice at the "official" levels at NAB, and I've not seen any anouncement regarding 3rd party licensing it. I think the forces that plane to capitalize on ICTV and HDTV are going to do what it takes to see that MPEG-II becomes the standard. At least that is what is the favorite management hype mnemonic these days. I also think NewTek was waiting for the industry to beat a path to Topeka to get access to VTASC but the inauspicous launch of the Flyer I think has basically killed that opportunity. BTW, be sure to distinguish between DVC and DVCPro. One is the consumer format and the other is the pro/industrial format, neither compatible with the other, according to AVVideo. wmc – via Autopilot!
#119025From: Brian JonesAug 14, 1995 9:35 PM
RE: DVC DVCpro, I just read that Panasonic's DVCpro equipment will be able to read the Consumer DVC version. It could have been that Sony is licensing the DVC for consumer stuff only… Hey Tom (if you are out there watching this thread), what kind of Sony DVC stuff are you hoping to get this fall (DVC or DVCpro)?
#119035From: Ed MellnikAug 14, 1995 11:20 PM
It would be great if you could start a new thread…. It is a waste of a lot of time to be reading non related subjects undr the subject of Flyer Future Concensus.
#119593From: THOMAS N. WHEELERAug 19, 1995 11:36 AM
Brian, I am intrigued by the Sony DVC camcorders, but I don't plan to buy anything until I see the picture quality. That's always the bottom line for me. Tom