#Disk #6 or Bones ??
16 messages in this thread
I'm not sure which IPAS will be more appropriate for what I want to do? …
Disk #6 (Skin/Slice) or Bones Pro ??? Perhaps someone can help enlighten me.
I have a logo that will be on screen (stationary) and then have a "ribbon" come
in from off-screen – sort of slithering, undulating, "fluid" in nature….you
get the idea ?…ultimately settling in behind the "Anniversary logo" . I was
also hoping to get the ends to fold / bend into an "artistic" position. I
really dread the thought of making a million or so morphing targets or even
just trying to get this thing to bend correctly without one of these IPAS'.
Besides…I simply don't have the time. <G>
T.I.A. for any / all help
C.U. Gary 🙂
Gary,
With Bones Pro you should be able to set a linear array of objects (bones)
within your highly tesselated/gridified ribbon mesh. Set them up as a
hierarchy, and bend away! The Bones act as a visible reference so you can
keyframe just as if it was a multi-jointed ribbon.
I'm sure you could also get some good use out of a lofted path, spiraling
the bones around the logo this way and that. In this case just import the path
to the KF for all the bones to follow, then slide each subsequent bone's
starting key a notch. Start your path as a straight line, so you can set up
the bones in a line. No need for higherarchies here, although you might need a
master dummy object to "move" the mesh in general along.
Paul S.
Paul-
Thanks for the response !
Do you know if Skin / Slice / Deform (Disk #6) is similar to Bones Pro in its
capabilities? By reading the "propoganda" on these things it sounds like they
do similar things in a slightly different manner. Feel free to correct me if
I'm wrong about this.
Thanks again !
C.U.
Gary 🙂
PMJI, but I own both Skin and Bones Pro, and I'd pick BP anyday. IMVHO, there
really isn't any comparison, particularly in ease of use. Skin won't skin
branched objects without some very tricky work, and even then it's more art
than science, but BP can take any mesh and animate it (any!). Skin makes
dozens (or hundreds) of objects to link, keep track of, redraw, etc. whereas BP
needs a magnitude less. With the included Smooth routine, BP is almost a
complete animation toolkit on its own.
In short, you'll need BP no matter what else you have anyway, so go ahead and
get it.
Mike,
No need to (PMJI) ! …. I appreciate all (un)solicited opinions. Actually,
I'm _really_ glad that you jumped in. It sounds as though your opinion on this
is rather strong ….and that helps me to believe (with sense of security and
confidence) that BP is the way to go here.
Quick question however…<<… whereas BP needs a magnitude less. >> What does
that comment mean ??? Specifically, "magnitude less" ?
Thanks again !
C.U.
Gary 🙂
Gary,
I'm a big "skin" fan and also bones pro. I use both because each has pros and
cons. I still use skin because I find it more controllable in some situations.
Skin uses splines, bonePRO uses polygons, therefore skin uses a lot fewer
points to give more organic, smooth surfaces. I've found it easier to model and
animate organics for this reason. If you want to modify your bones pro mesh it
can be very dense and difficult to work with.
There are some limitations with skin. You can't cut holes in the objects and
texture mapping can be a pain. I don't think you could use meshpaint for it,
for example. Hopefully, this will be fixed one day, because I like to work with
spline surfaces.
My 2 pennies worth 🙂
Martin-
…. always appreciate getting your "2 pennies worth" <BG>
Don't know if you caught the original message… I'm trying to do a ribbon
coming in from off-screen – sort of "snaking" its way behind a logo, and then
bend its way into its final shape. I have been trying to figure out which IPAS
would be better suited to QUICKLY and easily acheive this ?! So far it seems
BP has gotten the most votes… If I had my way, I'd get them both. <BG>
Thanks again.
C.U.
Gary 🙂
Gary,
>> I'm trying to do a ribbon coming in from off-screen – sort of "snaking" its
way behind a logo, and then bend its way into its final shape. <<
thanks for refreshing my memory on the original project. Now I remember it, I
think it'd be faster in skin, because you'd loft a ribbon, slice up the
sections, have one be the leader and the copy/tracks to all the other objects
following and offset them in time. You could do some pretty elaborate moves and
because they are splines you'd have LESS objects than you'd need with the bones
approach, IMHO. I just tried this and in 10 minutes I had a 10 slice ribbon
doing really fancy moves (a triple loop helix) with very smooth curves. If the
path is elaborate I think the bones approach would require a huge number of
bones to get a smooth move and every time you make a change to the animation
you'd have to go back to the bones dialog and save the data again. With skin,
when you make a change you can render right away. In Mike's dinosaur example,
bones wins easily.
I can't say this with a great deal of certainty, but it's my gut feeling. It's
nice to have both and this one sounds like a good one for skin. However, if you
only can afford to buy one I think you'd get more use out of Bones Pro and
could use it for this project.
Martin –
Sorry it's taken me awhile to respond – been REAL busy this past week…and am
just getting caught up on messages.
>> I think it'd be faster in skin <<
Er', Um', I just got bones last Friday…looks like I should have checked my
messages. Oh well !! I went through the tutorials and even messed with BP on
my ribbon mesh…. not a whole lot of success – I'm lost in a sea of heirarchys
and link pivot points. I'll give it a few more tries and come up with
something I suppose. ??!! Anyway, thanks again for all your helpful "nuggets
of wisdow".
Gary 🙂
>Specifically, "magnitude less" ?
If you generate 30 slices of skin, you'll use 3 (or less) bones. Hence, a
magnitude less.
>It sounds as though your opinion on this is rather strong
Yeah, and it takes a more experienced guy like Martin "Virtuosity" Foster to
humble me — when the big boys speak, everyone should listen. I don't use Skin
anymore, and doubt that I ever will, but Martin's comments are worth
considering, particularly if you've seen his work (and you certainly haven't
seen mine). However, just to further confuse you, the best model I've ever
done was using Skin
Mike-
Apologies for my delayed response…been exceptionally busy the last week and I
haven't checked my messages until today. F.Y.I. — I got Bones Pro. I
went through the tutorials and "generally" messed with it last Friday. I'm
having some trouble with setting up the links to have my "ribbon" bend the
correct way…. Anyway?..I appreciate your comments and suggestions. Thanks
again !
Gary 🙂
> I'm having some trouble with setting up the links to have my "ribbon" bend
the correct way….
I didn't save the first part of this thread, so I'm not sure I remember exactly
what kind of ribbon you were doing, but to create a sort of "whip" I'd just
make one bone in the front viewpoint, and then use the array commands to make
as many as you think you'll need, stretched out. Then you can link one and use
the inherit links to have them all linked correctly.
If you need to constrain motion in certain directions I'd use IK and set up all
my appropriate limits, etc. in there for my bones. IK is kind of handy anyway,
as you can just grab one end of your whip to animate (or have it solve for a
follow object). I nearly always use IK with BP. If you just want your ribbon
to curl around and slink like a snake, it seems like using IK to follow would
do the trick (and perhaps using interactive IK to "tweak" those areas that need
it).
If you can't figure it out post exactly what you'd like to do and I'll give it
a shot.
>> I own both Skin and Bones Pro, and I'd pick BP anyday <<
What would you say IYHO are the "practical" day-to-day uses of Skin then?
– ej
>What would you say IYHO are the "practical" day-to-day uses of Skin then?
I think Martin's pretty well delininated it for you — and he's the pro with
the credentials. But I will say that, from an amatuer standpoint, I find Skin
difficult to use (even though I built my Stegosauraus with it) and the slices
hard to control. I found it would take literally around 10 times as long to
create the same model using BP as using Skin (both lofted the same way, but
with Skin I had to spend an inordinate amount of time adjusting the various
slices for the limbs to get to blend smoothly, whereas with BP I only had to
Boolean the limbs together and use Smooth).
Quite honestly, I haven't used Skin since I got BP, and I doubt if I ever will
again.
Gary,
I don't have Slice/Skin. I agree with Mike, Bones Pro is an excellent
IPAS to own.
Paul S.
Gary,
My suggestion would be to go with BonesPro. In my experience I have found it
to be more flexible in terms of working with your mesh. Although, since you
are creating a ribbon it would be fairly simple to create the cross-sections
for skin and then IK the chain to animate a nice ripple or wave effect.
Bones Pro would be my tool of choice, but skin will work equally well on this
job. It really is a matter of opinion.
Andrew Sinagra
Digital Art & Motion