#Cartoon animation
17 messages in this thread
Hi there,
I am interested in getting into animation and am familiar with the type of
photorealistic 3D animations 3D Studio can produce. However I would also like
to produce animation like what we see in Cartoons on TV. Can this be done with
3D Studio or Animator Pro, or are the professional cartoons still done with
traditrional methods.
Any info anyone can offer is greatky appreciated!
kindest regards
Greg Barnett
" Can this be done with 3D Studio or Animator Pro, or are the professional
cartoons still done with traditrional methods."
It's me again – I hope you've seen the cartoon show "REBOOT" on Saturday
morning. It basically *could* be done with 3DS, but isn't.
Since everyone in the world but me is at SIGGRAPH, let me take this opportunity
to jump in.
If you're referring to the "traditional" cel type animation, a la Disney,
Warner Brothers, et. al, then 3DS isn't exactly the product to do this. There
is a blurry line between cel animation and 3D type stuff (in Aladdin, for
example, both the rug and the cave of wonders were done with 3D animation
programs, combined with the 2D cel stuff), but 3DS in particularly doesn't lend
itself to the cartoon look — that look is much flatter.
There have been a couple of people on this forum who've said they have
solutions to this in the form of a routine that would produce a solid cartoon
shaded figure, but we've seen nothing for this yet.
AAS might very well work for you, but remember there is a tremendous amount of
hand work that goes into drawing each cel, and the computer won't really change
that (just eliminate the paper!).
Hi Mike,
Thanks for the info and quick reply! Much appreciated!
<<AAS might very well work for you, but remember there is a tremendous amount
of hand work that goes into drawing each cel, and the computer won't really
change that (just eliminate the paper!). >>
I guess what am looking for is what I understand 3D studio has in the way of
its keyframer, where as i understand it fill in the frames in between itself.
But, yes, any of the work I have seen done on 3D Studio looks great, but is too
realistic for cartoon type stuff.
Thanks agian
regards
Greg Barnett
>I guess what am looking for is what I understand 3D studio has in the way of
its keyframer, where as i >understand it fill in the frames in between itself.
But, yes, any of the work I have seen done on 3D Studio >looks great, but is
too realistic for cartoon type stuff.
As Nik says, there is cartoon type animation done on Saturdays (Reboot) that is
typical of what you get when you use a 3D type package, but it ain't the kind
of Disney stuff I'd like to do. I truly think 3DS could do it, if there was
some kind of routine that would provide a solid shading with outline, but since
Gary and company don't care much for non-realistic 3D, it doesn't get a high
priority (for me I think it would be the biggest break through yet! Just
imagine all the Disney folks using 3D MAX!).
Computers can so *some* tweening between flat cels, but not to the degree
someone without any talent (like myself) can take advantage of. But if you
find anything, let me know!
Mike, some people have been experimenting with solid shading and outline. I
think David Gould was writting an IPAS that would do nifty outlines.
Personally, I enjoy working with 2-D and 3-D together. The composite is very
interesting. Sometimes I generate 3-D characters in 8-bit FLCs and use
Animator-Pro to outline. Pretty clean at 1024×768.
> I think David Gould was writting an IPAS that would do nifty outlines
I remember this, and I believe he even said he had posted some samples, but
they never showed up on the board, and I couldn't find the original thread to
ask him about it. Maybe he'll jump in here and comment.
The problem with outlines in 3DS is that you need more than an outline — and
you need less. If a character's arm crosses in front of him, then the outline
routine needs to be smart enough somehow to know that the arm needs to still
have an outline around it, even if the color of the arm still matches the
character's body. I can perform all kinds of image processing techniques that
outline the basic shape, but to follow this kind of detail is something I think
only a 3D program could do.
Then you need somehow to have the outline "stop" as the arm reaches the body.
I can't even imagine the complexities of the programming that would go into
this kind of decision, but perhaps the shading of the light would be translated
into outlines.
Gary said he thought it was possible an IPAS could do this — and I sure think
such an IPAS would sell a ton (IMHO there's a HUGE pent-up demand for the
ability to do this kind of cartoon animation, that is offered no where else).
right you are. there are so many ways an IPAS which would do intelligent
outlines would be useful. I think David was going to LA95, so it might be a
little while till he is back on-line. As soon as I see one of his [David "just
an outline kind of guy" Gould] messages, I'll ask him what the status is on
that IPAS. Jeffrey
<<Computers can so *some* tweening between flat cels, but not to the degree
someone without any talent (like myself) can take advantage of. But if you
find anything, let me know!>>
I am guessing that by tweening you mean, the filling in betweeb key frames???
(sorry new to this <g>) I would have thought it would be easier to do this in
2D than it is in 3D (ie 3D Studio). But yes, I shall certainly let you know if
I find anything!
Thanks for your tips
regards
Greg
Greg, if you are interested in working with 2-D char. anim. wherein you want to
set up keyframe positions and have the system do the tweens check out Elastic
Reality. Essentially, it is a morphing platform, but very powerful array of
individual tweeking choices. Runs in Windows and comes bundled with Win32.
Also, it includes Transjammer, which allows you to set up very interesting
screen wipes and transitions. There is also an NT version written that is very
very fast. I find Elastic Reality incredibly well written. Very elegant design
and buggless… came down from Silicon Graphics Platform. Everything from very
subtle facial expression animation to all out death-grip motion and/or image
morphs can be achieved. Program is pretty deep and requires a good deal of
sneaking around tweeking little odds and ends to get the most out of it.
However, front-end learning curve is quick, then you can take your time with
subtlties. I particularly like the fact that individual surround areas can be
given their own transition/transp. timelines and individual vertices within a
surround area can be given their own additional timelines. Very good output
quality and excellent use of system resources. Basically, my 2-D animation
needs are met by Elastic Reality, Animator-Pro and Painter 3.0. Anim-Studio
missed the target by a mile and I'll wait a few more upgrades before checking
back in on that one… unless I hear a sudden flurry of HURRAYs and Sighs of
Relief. Jeffrey
>> Painter 3.0. Anim-Studio missed the target by a mile and I'll wait a few
more upgrades before checking back in on that one… unless I hear a sudden
flurry of HURRAYs and Sighs of Relief. Jeffrey <<
i agree that the other packages you mention are great animation packages.
saying AStudio missed the mark by miles though… we've been using it for
cellular animation, clip-art animation and photorealistic animation for some
time and it did not miss the mark at all for our work. perhaps for yours it
did… but blanket statements reak of "blanketness". 🙂
-dave
>>but blanket statements reak of "blanketness"<< Oh really? Funny… I always
think of blankets as cover-ups. (:-}))))} Now, Dave, if I had restraint I would
leave that one-liner stand, but – a little history. Some months ago I loaded
Anim-Studio. Found it non-functional. Suspected it was a configuration problem,
and contacted friends in other animation shops. Same deal… everyone was
bummed. I made my findings known on ASOFT and got flak, rhetoric and
rigamarole. I did draft and send a detailed list of my findings, complaints and
other "things about Autodesk that were starting to really get on my nerves."
So, you see, constructive is still my motivation. However, I did form a
professional opinion, and that opinion is shared by all the other animators I
called, trying to get help in uncrippling this software. Bottom line: We need a
robust 2-D 24bit animation software. Particularly one that can function at
video output resolution (forget real-time play, just give me reasonable
load-time for streams, real-time pointer movement so I can paint and draw —-
and, well, you know the rest of this long list, so I'll spare that pathos).
Jeffrey
hi Jeff. 🙂
>> was bummed. I made my findings known on ASOFT and got flak, rhetoric and
rigamarole. I did draft and send a detailed list of my findings, complaints and
other "things about Autodesk that were starting to really get on my nerves."
So, you see, constructive is still my motivation. <<
there were some bugs in r1.0. no doubt. but again, what software of x.0 doesn't
go through its paces. here we are, a couple months later and on the brink of
the Win95 version, and c1 for the win3.1 version… things moving along at a
typical pace. hopefully, when you tap in, you'll always get a balance of people
who agree and disagree with you. <g>
>> However, I did form a professional opinion, and that opinion is shared by
all the other animators I called, trying to get help in uncrippling this
software. Bottom line: We need a robust 2-D 24bit animation software.
Particularly one that can function at video output resolution (forget real-time
play, just give me reasonable load-time for streams, real-time pointer movement
so I can paint and draw —- and, well, you know the rest of this long list, so
I'll spare that pathos). <<
i agree. i can't stress enough that waiting for a while after a new release of
any software (or hardware) comes out has its benefits.
-dave
Hi Jeffrey,
<<if you are interested in working with 2-D char. anim. wherein you want to set
up keyframe positions and have the system do the tweens check out Elastic
Reality.>>
Would you by any chance know where i can get info on this? I am in Australia
but even a conact OS would be useful.
<< Essentially, it is a morphing platform, but very powerful array of
individual tweeking choices.>>
I have a package called Digital Morth (came free with my CD drive!!) which
could probabley do tweening, but this would be a pretty horid way to go about
animation. Your alterantive sounds very good though.
<<Basically, my 2-D animation needs are met by Elastic Reality, Animator-Pro
and Painter 3.0. Anim-Studio missed the target by a mile and I'll wait a few
more upgrades before checking back in on that one… unless I hear a sudden
flurry of HURRAYs and Sighs of Relief.>>
I have just requested info on Anim Studio. Thank for the tips, and thanks very
much for your assistance above!! Much appreciated!
regards Greg
Greg, most graphics software magazines advertize Elastic Reality. Clearly, I
would not want to do animation with only this package, but as one of my tool
sets it is great. Elastic REality, Inc. 925 Stewart St. Madison, WI 53713 (608)
273-6585
Thanks for the contact details for Elastic Reality. I actually found a demo
version online here but its 5.5mg!
When I'm game I will get it.
Thanks again
regards
Greg
Greg,
<< I actually found a [ER] demo version online here but its 5.5mg! >>
I believe they also distribute it on CD.
Mark