#the ultimate monitor
21 messages in this thread
Yep. Besides being a large monstrousity, the dot pitch on the 1070 is not as
good as the 1201 nor do I think the color saturation is as good. I had a 1070,
sold it after 2 days and bought the 1201. With the 1201's going (retail) for
only $100 more than the 1080, there is really no real reason to have to settle
for the 1080.
As I said, I do prefer the 1201 to the 1070 — but the 1070 is FAR superior to
the 1080.
Hi, do you get rid of jitters with the 1201?
Bruno
Flicker is a result of the persistance level of the cathode tube not the
resolution.
But the main cause of flicker is the number of times the screen is painted each
second. You may have heard this refered to as screen refresh. At about 66
frames per second most people can not see any flicker. In europe the ergonomic
folks say 80 is (for sure) flicker free. The Amiga when running in interlace
mode be it 640*400 or 320*400 the screen is updated (I believe) only 30 times
each second. Thus the stobe-o vision. Hope this clears it up! By the way Ive
heard that the OS is set up to do 1024*1024 max anybody have and ideas on what
the possable perameters might be? ie number of colours in that res and the
changes needed. It would be G R E A T to have a high speed colour monitor in
this mode. Say 1024*768 4096 colours. And I know just who has a monitor in
the works to do it also!!
Jay,
"At about 66 frames per second most people can not see any flicker"? I hate
to be the one to tell you but the Amiga (in non-interlace) mode refreshes the
screen 60 times a second. There is no flicker. There is also no flicker in
intY.[\,YPmode (being refreshed 30 times a second) if using a a long
persistance monitor like the ElectraHome (or several others on the market).
What I ment to say is that at 66 nobody (Most anyways) can not see any flicker.
at 60 some can. Try looking at the Amiga screen 640*200 sideways. Also try
this while snapping your jaw. Maybe you won't see any flicker but some can.
60 of course is much better than 30! And although using a slow trace monitor
can keep your eyes from going wacky at 30 frames per it is not so great for
scrolling data. By the way did you know that Amiga is one of the only
machines that does smooth scrolling? One of the reasons it is still #1 in
my mind. Oh by the way if you want to do any flicker experiments "worst case"
use a white backround/page with black text.
Have fun, Jay
Jay,
The "snapping your jaw" syndrome is related to a biological function, and
hardly qualifies as a test of flicker. A long persistence monitor does indeed
help, and the scrolling data is not at all unpleasant with the right amount of
persistence.
The Amiga's smooth scrolling is certainly not unique. The Vic, C64, C128,
Plus/4 and C16 were all capable of smooth scrolling, and without using grahic
bitmaps to do so. There are probably more, but those are the ones I am familiar
with.
Regards, Larry.
Right! Stick a hand held massager/vibrator to your head and the whole world
'flickers'.
Larry:
DEC has been using smooth scroll for about 25 years.
73,
bill
And thats why DEC is still able to sell terminals. They like Amiga did it
better than most everybody. Have you checked out the program Handshake?
DEC would love it! Or maybe they would be angry? It is the only one to do
smooth scrolling. Reminds me that I owe those fellows a check.
Jay:
No I have not. Never even heard of it! What and where? Maybe some
features too if you have time.
Many places still use VT-100's and probably would not part with them
but for me the Amy keyboard has me spoiled. That thing is so light and
convenient.
Speaking of smooth scroll……I have been using an IBM turbo-XT at
work recently with a color monitor. The screen updates are about to drive me
nuts. They are terribly slow and the screen flashes at you while it is
writing. I had been critical about the Amy scroll (w/o fast fonts, etc)
because the right third of the screen was behind the left two thirds during a
fast scroll! The cursor on the IBM flashes all over the screen during a screen
update too and I have a feeling that it is not optional (unless you turn off
the cursor).
73,
bill
Bill,
That IBM monitor flashing is a mess! I really am suprised that more people
don't notice and complain. I have always felt that the folks who do things
right are ignored to easily. I think its a mistake of the advertisment folk
to ignore the benifits of a system when it clearly has good features.
By the way several folks have programs that make the IBM stop it silly flashing.
No way that I know of to make it smooth scroll as it is char gen display for
text and not graphics. By the way what is your call? Mine is WB0VNE maybe
we have yapped on the radio before???
Best Regards, Jay
Bill,
Ever try typing the contents of a long file on a cli screen with wb up in
the background, and the standard wb demos running, every part of the screen
that has the demos in its vertical portion runs a bit behind those that don't!
–Gabe
Bill,
You mention the Amy scroll (right third being behind the left 2/3)… could
it be you are using something like RSLClock or anything else that opens a
window? If more than one window is open on the screen, the layers library gets
into the act, and it does slow things down.
Regards, Larry.
I've heard that, not only is the O/S set up for 1024×1024, but C-A is
working on a chip to allow that resolution! They are also said to be working
on a chip for an enhanced number of colors (16M ala Mac II).
The rumor of a new Fat Agnes chip for the 500 and 2000 is now supposed to be
fact. It will allow 1 Mb of chip RAM access. It's supposed to be distributed
this fall. The other previous two chips I mentioned are said to be "…out
sooner than you think." This according to AC magazine.
Steve, so any high persistance monitor should work with the Amiga as long
as its not a Mac monitor? Is this correct?
Bruno
One of us is confused. Yes, any analog RGB monitor will work with the Amiga.
Persistance is a function of the phosphor coating on the tube. The Mac monitor
is not a long persistance monitor.
OK I got it. So I take for granted that commodore does not make a high
persistance monitor right now, or makes one thats unsatisfactory. With so many
high persistance monitors out there I wonder why all the complaints about
jitters. I have not checked but maybe price is one reason? See I'm waiting for
my a2000 and would like to avoid a jittery screen (since I think it would drive
me bananas). I'm also looking for a color printer with graphics. Someone
recomended a okimate 292 which I'm looking into. I saw one listed for $455.00.
I'm still shopping around but it looks like thats the cheapest I'm going to
find it. Have you had any experiance with the 292? Well thats all folks.
C/U/L
Bruno
Bruno,
The "jitters" as you call them are ONLY in interlace mode and ONLY when
using short persistence monitors. When in non-interlaced mode (which is the
vast majority of the time…in fact all the time for most of us), there are NO
jitters. The use of a medium to high persistence monitor will eliminate any
visible flicker with perhaps the exception of when you have adjacent pixels in
a vertical line that are very high contrast one to the other.
With a high persistence monitor, even that won't be a problem; however,
you will have another problem…smear. Any bright objects moving across the
screen (such as the mouse) will leave a visible trail behind them.
None of this is a "problem", it's due to the fact that the Amiga
outputs standard NTSC video (what is used on TV) which is needed to drive
video applications such as overlays, titling, etc. better known as "desktop
video".
Did you ever see the program "Max Headroom", the video overlays are
done on an Amiga.
Don
Don:
I finally got around to using the file that you E-Mailed to me while I
was off the forum for awhile. Thanks, the new settings are very good and the
flicker is almost imperceptable. Unfortunately, I don't have the name of the
individual that suggested the settings so I can't thank him (her) also.
73,
bill
Thanks Don, I thought I'D be buged with jitters all of the time. I have
seen the Max Headroom series. So the amiga can do all of that, that is
something. Well thanks agn Don.
C/U/L
Bruno