#Benchmark and 2.0
14 messages in this thread
I must state that as an upgrade offer, 50% off of retail is ridiculous!! I
have worked in the Amiga software arena doing both commercial duplication
and retail, and I know that, on average, distributors buy software from the
software houses at 60% off of list. Therefore you are charging your loyal
users more for an upgrade than you charge the distributors for new product!
I just paid $60.00 for an upgrad to Professional Page, and assuming that
the list price is $299.00, that would only be 20% of list, or 80% off.
Word Perfect had an upgrade that completely "Amiga-ized" the user
interface, and that was only $12.50. At 50% of (or off of) list, after 2
upgrades you have paid for the original product over again. With the
Benchmark upgrade you're talking about, there wouldn't be anything new,
just adaptations of existing componants. For an upgrade that supports
AmigaDOS 2.0, an improved user-interface, and corresponding documentation,
I would pay $50 – maximum.
I'm certain Leon will reply, but I am fairly sure you mis-read the posting
thread. The 50% retail upgrade is the cost to a customer for upgrading from
M2Sprint to the latest version of Benchmark. That is, from going from one
product to another, not for going up a version. That's like buying
WordPerfect, then deciding you want Excellence! instead and getting half
off Excellence!. I may be completely incorrect, but I think this is what
Avant Garde meant.
The upgrade I was refering to was an upgrade from M2Sprint to Benchmark.
Which means that I am sending the user a different product, not an
enhancement to an existing product. BTW, unlike other software companies I
don't sell my products to distributors for 60% off retail and even if I did
what a distributor pays for something is not what the user pays. The
suggested retail on Benchmark Modula-2 is $199.95 and that's what is
considered along with the extent of the changes goes into considering a
normal upgrade fee. I hope that clarifies things a little.
I just checked my latest Amiga World, and these are the prices of
Benchmark:
Distributer Price % of SRP
Go Amigo 134.00 65%
Creative Computers 124.95 62%
Software Shop 128.00 64%
MCS 120.00 60% It seems that the mail order
distributers are selling Benchmark at 60-65% of the list price. Since I
have not seen Benchmark for sale in any of the computer or software stores,
I don't know what they charge. But since they charge 90-100% of list, I
imagine the price would be $160 to $200. These prices do not include
shipping (normally $3 to $8). I just upgraded Excellence! (list also
!199.95) for $49.95.
BTW, the 50% off in going from M2Sprint to Benchmark does seem like a
pretty good deal. It is after all a change of products.
TO: Bill Roberts 76056,1613
RE: #17757-Benchmark and 2.0/17888 S11/Avant-Garde
DT: 22-Jul-90 13:23:16
Bill,
Just bought a copy last month from my local store…$189.95 + tax (6% in
Florida).
-Chas
Update to my price list. I just got a flyer from an outfit called Computer
Discout in Denver (303)-825-2943. They have Benchmark for $100and the
debugger (don't get one without the other) for $76. I paid $99 for it and
called it a bargin.
Hi, you all. Maybe you could tell me – is any Modula-2 compiler being
actively supported or worked on? Thanks.
Hi. I believe that I have seen message from Avant-Garde software here on
this forum saying that they intend to update the Benchmark compiler to
support AmigaDOS 2.0. I have the current Rev. of Benchmark, and it runs OK
under 2.0 on the Amiga3000, although I can't write progams that call 2.0
routines until the Benchmark upgrade becomes available. Mike
There is Benchmark, of course. I have also heard rummors of another one
which is Beta test somewhere. TDI seems to have died and gone to Texas.
There were some notes in the AmigaTech section on the derth of Modula
messages. And, from the notes left here, I am forced to agree with them
that Modula is no longer a popular Amiga language. That would be a shame,
since it is well suited for most things that are currently done with C. It
is better for tasks which require several programmers working
independantly. But there are a couple of big holes in the language, such
as no way to initialize variables (especally arrays of RECORDS) like can be
done in C.
Or as can be done in Ada. Other holes you've experienced in Modula-2? I
don't really care about the popularity of the language, except insofar as
it affects support for the compiler I choose.
I think the main thing about Modula I do not like is the inability to
initialize structures (and arrays of structures) as I mentioned in my
previous note. That is closely coupled with the requirement that I specify
the number of elements in an ARRAY when declared. If I could do something
like this
VAR
Table : ARRAY OF NeatStructures := {
{ (* First Element *) Type1, 'C', 345, "This is a test" },
{ (* Sec Eleement *) Type2, 'F', 23, "This is not" },
:
{ (* Last Element *) TypeA, 'X', 0, "Failure eminanat" }};
and have the compiler set the number of elements, I would be happy. For the
most part, I consider Modula-2 to be what Ada should have been. (BTW, don't
get me started on an anti-Ada tirade. It get boring quickly) I do think
that the above problem, as well as the inability to pass back anything
except scaler types (another hole, now that I think of it) is addressed in
the ANSI Module-2 standard. Hey Leon, what will happen with Benchmark when
that is published? Also what about a double precision real?
I fail to see the logic in your argument! What's the sense of comparing
upgrade prices to distributor prices for new product? Do you pay
distributor price? Regardless of your loyalty to a product (which
apparently would shift, if a cheaper product were available) someone had to
work on the upgrade. How do you expect the bills to be paid during that
time? Shouldn't the programmers be paid? If a company can't expect to be
paid for minor upgrades, how do you expect them to create the major
upgrades?
OK, first let me point out that I misunderstood the message, because it was
actually two replies to two different questions, and the upgrade to the
Benchmark product would not be so high. Assuming that a company WAS
charging 50% of list price for an upgrade (purchased directly), I just feel
that the upgrader (user) would be paying too much. Upgrades (unless they
are MAJOR like you pointed out) don't take near as much effort as
programming a product from scratch. I feel that the programmer should be
compensated for his work, but the user should get a break because : 1) he
has previously made an investment in the company (by buying the product),
and 2) because the middleman (distributor) has been eliminated. Also, the
programmer will be paid through continued sales of his product which is now
even better.
I definitely think programmers/companies should be compensated, but
50% for an upgrade is excessive — if it is only a "maintainance upgrade".
If a program was radically altered and had billions of new features, then
such a price might be warrented. But many programs such as Pro-Page,
excellence!, Word Perfect, and Photon Paint have all undergone substantial
upgrades for reasonable fees (a lot lower than 50%) and the companies seem
to be "paying the bills". Pagestream was being updated for free to correct
flaws in the original program, and the new 2.0 version will cost money
because there are new features — perfectly fair.
I just know that as a consumer, I would feel betrayed if a company
made more off of my minor upgrade than it did from the guy down the street
that I recommended their product to, regardless of what I am paying. Also,
I don't give out company loyalties to the lowest bidder — I give them to
those who make a quality product, and conduct themselves respectably.
Thing is, I agree with you – 50 percent is higher than normal… but what's
normal about the Amiga market? I'm confident they've sold far fewer
Benchmarks than other companies have sold Photon Paint, WordPerfect, etc.,
even though I don't know how many they've sold. It's safe to say they
won't get but a couple hundred requests for this upgrade, tops. Ask them
if my guess is correct. We're talking about $50 here. Let's say they get a
hundred upgrades, that's $5,000 in the door, minus costs of disks,
shipping, shipping envelopes, paying someone to handle all those orders,
then subtract the pay for programmers and general business overhead. That
$5,000 disappears quickly.