#A1200 & the CD32
14 messages in this thread
Thanks for the PCMCIA info Chris, I'm not wholely aware of such things. I just
relate the 16-bit/32-bit in regard RAM. This obviously has little to do with
your answer. This just confuses me more really. If it is fastest enough why
does not C= use it? It would be the obvious chose. Aren't all external points
on a computer, "ports" of some description. The PCMCIA is just a 16-bit one
:-). As I re-read the bit you extracted from one of my messages, I'm saying the
same as you. The PCMCIA is OK for "bus" work, but not for RAM.
Charles
* Thirsk – North Yorkshire – United Kingdom *
Gday Charles,
In answer to your question regarding PCMCIA vs Processor slot:
PCMCIA has a transfer speed of about 3.5Mb per second (ie. the same as
Zorro II), however it does not have DMA (Direct Memory Access) or a 32 bit
data path (both of which are required by the `Akiko' chip (Chunky <->
Planar and CD-ROM control)).
I understand that the 1200/CD32 add on will have slots for fast memory. (I
just hope there is a way to connect the MPEG chipset to it.)
Sam Yates – Montrose, Victoria, Australia. A1200HD
Internet: sam_yates@guru.apana.org.au
Thanks Sam,
That's what I was lead to believe about the PCMCIA etc "slots" 🙂
It is good FAST RAM will be able to be fitted, but I could start worrying
about the price of this RAM. I don't know about the MPEG, but I imagine C= will
address this if it is hoping to continue its Amiga success which it IS trying
to do (in the UK anyway). It seems we are the only ones making them money!
Charles
* Thirsk – North Yorkshire – United Kingdom *
Port is too generic. 'Bus' refers to something that's usually more capable
and closer to the internal 'guts'.
"If it is fastest enough why does not C= use it?"
I don't know. Why won't C= let me run CDTV disks on my A3000? C= is doing
what it has always done.. Under-applying (even suffocating) its own
technology.
If I recall, you were loathing on the idea of a CD32 product for the
A1200 using the PCMCIA bus. Anyway, PCMCIA can be suitable for RAM,
particularly when the CPU is 16bit (then it doesn't matter) as with the
A600. Such a RAM card on an A600 could be considered true Fast RAM;
Contrast this with the clumsier (and probably more expensive) Fast RAM
boards for the A500. I think that RAM PCMCIA cards came along first
because it was simpler and was well-suited to the A600 (which preceeded
the A600).
However, I agree that on the A1200, PCMCIA should be used for anything
_but_ RAM, CPUs, or graphics. It is perfect for external comms. _and_ mass
storage.
-Chris
Hi Chris,
I'm not really bother as to the actual terms by which all these ports, buses,
slots, holes, etc go by, we all know what we are getting at 🙂
What I was "loathing" was the fact that C= are going to knacker my FAST RAM
expansion which I paid 300 quid (Sterling) for. I'm really looking forward to
the new generation of 3-D stuff this CD is going to bring, but it'll be totally
wasted on a machine with only CHIP RAM. Not to mention the '030 boards.
The real question will be whether to buy the CD-32 or to buy the add-on. I
suppose I can wait til XMas to find out what C= do, but I thought a few here
would know. Basically folk here have helped enlighten me further, which is
great.
The PCMCIA "bus" is now slowly become used, we have a HD available for it.
The CD-32 add-on will use the expansion bus (trapdoor) because it uses the
"Akiko" chip for graphic conversion. I need this on the CD-32 add-on, just as
long as FAST RAM is addressed. This is also true for the CD-32 itself, I hope
C= make it expandable with FAST RAM.
Charles
* Thirsk – North Yorkshire – United Kingdom *
In MY opinion the best thing that Commodore could do would be to make a
cable and adapter to go from the PCMCIA port on a 600 or 1200 to the
expansion port on the CD32.
If you own a 1200 and you want to get a CD-ROM drive you buy the CD32 and
adapter (perhaps at a discount). If you have a CD32 and you want to make
it a complete computer you get a 1200 (no HD) and the cable. (at a
discount)
Commodore wins because people buy 2 of their machines. Users win because
you can get a CD-ROM for your Amiga and have CD32's features for a hundred
or 2 more than the price of a regular CD-ROM drive AND, if you want to
play games at somebody else's house you've got a relativly portable CD
based game machine.
The transfer rate between the 2 machines wouldn't be that big a deal since
the CD32 would be displaying it's own graphics, and if you ever want to
sell the 600/1200 and get a 4000 you keep the CD32 and hook it to the new
machine. :^)
Better than a CDTV and parnet. :^)
Well I'm willing to buy either the full CD-32 or the add-on, whichever one
works the cheapest with FAST RAM and/or '030s etc. I need the full speed with
the CD graphics. People will buy this CD thing if C= make it work at the right
price. They will in Europe anyway.
Your ideas are good ones! Assuming they work properly.
Charles
* Thirsk – North Yorkshire – United Kingdom *
Actually CD32 is basically an A1200 with added video features and a CDROM
drive. You shouldn't have a transfer rate problem 'cause they both have the
same processor.
Why not add a keyboard to the CD32?
Chris
Actually the reason I thought there might be a transfer rate problem
is because PCMCIA slot in a 1200 is only 16 bits wide and nowhere
near as fast as SCSI or IDE.
As for just adding a keyboard to a CD32, you still wouldn't have a
useful computer. You'd need to add an RGB port so you could use a
real monitor instead of a TV. You'd need a hard drive for data
storage. (not much point in having Imagine 3 and a bunch of 3D
objects on a CD-ROM if you've got nowhere to put the animations
you're going to make.) You'd also need a floppy drive since that's
what most Amiga software comes on, and a keyboard and mouse to use
the software. If you're going to add all that equipment to a CD32
you may as well just hook a 1200 to it and add it all in 1 box. :^)
What if you could connect the CD32 to the A1200 via a SCSI PCMCIA
card that allowed you to set a different SCSI ID number than the
default #7? You could read/write to hard drives connected to the bus
on the A1200 side. or CDROM or hard drives directly connected to the
CD32 bus.
Chris,
The idea I had in mind would allow you to read any device on either
machine from either machine. (just like Parnet only faster)
There's no need to use SCSI as a transfer interface since neither machine
has it standard. PCMCIA to teh expansion bus on the CD32 should work just
as well. :^)
By the way, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a hard drive that will
connect to a CD32.
Actually, the PCMCIA is faster then a SCSI bus. (It's even faster than
Zorro II…)
T
Bob Comer — Flying high and fast with my A1200HD'030 on Autopilot!
From Cheyenne, Wyoming U.S.A.
"..because PCMCIA slot in a 1200 is only 16 bits wide and nowhere near as
fast as SCSI or IDE."
Hmmmm. This is the second time I've caught this error in this thread.
_Check_your_facts_.
PCMCIA is "only" 16 bits, true (just like Zorro-II)… but what gives you
the idea that it's slower than SCSI & IDE? And are you telling me that
Zorro-II (16bit) is too slow to get top SCSI performance? What about all
those A2000 HD boards?
I'm not arguing that CD32 should be connected via PCMCIA, I'm just
nitpicking on your false impression of PCMCIA's speed.
If PCMCIA were slower than SCSI, then those PCMCIA RAM cards would make
an Amiga 600/1200 look slower than a TI99/4a! RAM is by far the most
demanding add-on in terms of speed, and PCMCIA was clearly designed to
handle RAM (albeit , 16bit RAM).
Bottom line: PCMCIA is plenty fast enough for all but the fastest, most
expensive hard drives (and CDROMs are much slower than hard drives).
PCMCIA is good for RAM on an A600 (16bits) but would slow down an A1200
because of the 32bit-wide CPU. The vast majority of hard disks and drives
are not as fast as PCMCIA.
-Chris
-Chris
Chris,
Thanks for the info on the PCMCIA slot. If it's as fast as SCSI, GREAT!
That's all the more reason to use that to hook the 2 machines together.
:^)